6500k T5 Bulbs - Important Spectrums Missing in LEDs?

[OMGitsManBearPig]

you can't determine anything without quantifying what went from what to what..
I'm not completely adverse to your opinion but again.. say replacing 2 Kessil 360's w/ a 450W MH and getting better growth?
NO surprise considering the added photons..REGARDLESS of spectrum.
Same w/ say adding an 8 tube t5 (432W) vs 2 or 3 Kessils ect (270W)..

Adding t5's to an LED array and more growth again, NO surprise considering you are adding more photons..
Adding some Orphek strips might have done exactly the same thing.

Devil is ALWAYS in the details..

I guess some like things idiot proofed, others like a challenge..

excellent point.

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

How many tanks have you personally seen where someone went from LED to halide with no other changes and suddenly everything got better? Better yet, how many of those situations were there that the LEDs were adjusted by PAR and had truly enough coverage of fixtures, yet they still weren't having success? Exactly....

No one switches from led to halide because if they are with LED’s now they chose to sacrifice maximum potential for efficiency and low heat. The point isnt that you can’t grow coral with LED, the point is that a tank under LED’s is only around 80 percent of what it could be under halides. Coverage. Thats probably the biggest issue with LED you have to put fixtures almost on top of eachother to get decent coverage and you still don’t get the same results.

 

[Sallstrom]

Growth weight is not enough, but it is a start. The old standby is that "LED can grow coral just fine" which is true... but also only part of the picture. Where this will always be hard is that you need the eye-test as well. There will always be people who will want to see a tank like Copps under LED... or Steve Weast... or some of the many others that are real masters (not just masters in ReefBuilders articles). There are some good ones, but none that get to where these people are.

Do you see benefit from 700-750nm, or was that a typo? I also believe that there is benefit in IR, so I am curious. I like light from 350-800nm, personally.

All that I know is that the best of the best tanks, and the ocean, use lights (MH and T5) that have these wavelengths. Coincidence... probably not. I would rather be like those people than the ones that do not. If you want to argue that most people have never been at this level and will never get to this level, then cool, I will not argue with that... but I can, so I do not limit myself.

You have to show me those "best of the best" tanks! I'm not trying to make fun of you now, I really want to know. Otherwise I have no idea what you mean when you use them in an argument.

No typo. We got far red, 715 or 730nm, in our LEDs, so that's not missing. That's why I wrote over 750nm.
I haven't tested with and without, so I don't know if those wavelengths make any difference. I know corals grow without, but not if they do better with.

Yes, most corals tolerate a lot of light. Do they need it? Or are we just wasting light and heat? That I think is an interesting question. I don't have the answer. And I really like metal halides, but I still want to know if there are better ways to go lighting a reef tank.

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

you can't determine anything without quantifying what went from what to what..
I'm not completely adverse to your opinion but again.. say replacing 2 Kessil 360's w/ a 450W MH and getting better growth?
NO surprise considering the added photons..REGARDLESS of spectrum.
Same w/ say adding an 8 tube t5 (432W) vs 2 or 3 Kessils ect (270W)..

Adding t5's to an LED array and more growth again, NO surprise considering you are adding more photons..
Adding some Orphek strips might have done exactly the same thing.

Devil is ALWAYS in the details..

I guess some like things idiot proofed, others like a challenge..

Isnt efficiency the whole point of led’s? Being able to put out more with less wattage? If I am going to have to pay the same on the energy bill every month why am I going to invest crazy amounts of money on led’s? I love a challenge but only challenges that I have seen at least one person overcome so I know it is possible and in this case, I have not seen anyone overcome it yet.

 

[tsav87]

You have to show me those "best of the best" tanks! I'm not trying to make fun of you now, I really want to know. Otherwise I have no idea what you mean when you use them in an argument.

No typo. We got far red, 715 or 730nm, in our LEDs, so that's not missing. That's why I wrote over 750nm.
I haven't tested with and without, so I don't know if those wavelengths make any difference. I know corals grow without, but not if they do better with.

Yes, most corals tolerate a lot of light. Do they need it? Or are we just wasting light and heat? That I think is an interesting question. I don't have the answer. And I really like metal halides, but I still want to know if there are better ways to go lighting a reef tank.

Here's a link to a thread I started in 2005 on the other forum.

http://www.reef.......central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=667312
(Take the dots out)

These are either MH or T5. There wasn't LEDs back then.

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

Here's a link to a thread I started in 2005 on the other forum.

http://www.reef.......central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=667312
(Take the dots out)

These are either MH or T5. There wasn't LEDs back then.

I have not seen displays that impressive in a very long time, we focus so much on the latest and greatest named frag, and fragging it the second it grows a new branch that we never get to enjoy what a true masterpeice a tank can become. That tank you started the thread with, a masterpeice.

 

[Nick30G]

This is a graph of what zooanthelle absorb most of in the lighting spectrum. It would appear they benefit most from Blues and Violets and the Red spectrum. (If anyone was Curious)

 

[tsav87]

I have not seen displays that impressive in a very long time, we focus so much on the latest and greatest named frag, and fragging it the second it grows a new branch that we never get to enjoy what a true masterpeice a tank can become. That tank you started the thread with, a masterpeice.

That's what I'm saying. You can't compare apples and oranges if you've never seen and apple. (Hint, LEDs are the orange in that sentence.)

 

[tsav87]

This is a graph of what zooanthelle absorb most of in the lighting spectrum. It would appear they benefit most from Blues and Violets and the Red spectrum. (If anyone was Curious)

Benefit the most from blue? How about the zoox. require the full spectrum?

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

That's what I'm saying. You can't compare apples and oranges if you've never seen and apple. (Hint, LEDs are the orange in that sentence.)

Agreed. You would think after a decade we would have been very far in the right direction and yet here we are having to look at old pictures to see how full and natural a tank can look given the right conditions.

 

[DSC reef]

I absolutely love halide and T5 as we've used them for years. This debate is so old and played out and unfortunately will never die. I'm a firm believer in using what you want and enjoy your tank. With that, what do all the halide guys say when they see a nice led only tank? Can you actually give them credit or is it always gonna be, if you add halides your tank will look better! Good grief, so many nice tanks with all kinds of different light.

 

[tsav87]

I absolutely love halide and T5 as we've used them for years. This debate is so old and played out and unfortunately will never die. I'm a firm believer in using what you want and enjoy your tank. With that, what do all the halide guys say when they see a nice led only tank? Can you actually give them credit or is it always gonna be, if you add halides your tank will look better! Good grief, so many nice tanks with all kinds of different light.

Can you show me a tank grown from the start by LED that look anything like the tanks in the link I posted above? I havn't been able to find any.

 

[DSC reef]

Can you show me a tank grown from the start by LED that look anything like the tanks in the link I posted above? I havn't been able to find any.

I'm not gonna argue with you because there's no end. Sorry but there's plenty of nice tanks with led lights so keep fighting the good fight. Lol. I honestly dont care what lighting you prefer. Like I said, been a halide user for years but have an open mind to other options. So now the argument is nice tanks that have led lights only look good because they started with halides. Got it....

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

I absolutely love halide and T5 as we've used them for years. This debate is so old and played out and unfortunately will never die. I'm a firm believer in using what you want and enjoy your tank. With that, what do all the halide guys say when they see a nice led only tank? Can you actually give them credit or is it always gonna be, if you add halides your tank will look better! Good grief, so many nice tanks with all kinds of different light.

One day this debate will die, if I could get the same results I do with Halides I would have switched all my systems a long time ago. Therefore I think when LED’s reach the point where they start out competing halides and t5’s it will be the only light in the hobby. Im guessing like radion gen6. Of course I give them credit the point is not that you CAN’T have a nice tank with LED’s it is that you can have a nicer one with halides[emoji6] people that say “led’s work just fine” are correct but I dont want to stop at “just fine” and want to push the boundaries for growth and color. People that have LED’s are ok with sacrificing some growth and results for a more efficient and heat free system I am personally not. Sanjay’s tank is only 80 percent at most of what it used to be, and he is ok with that. If that was me I wouldnt be and would switch back but what a hobbyist is looking for in a system really differs from person to person

 

[tsav87]

No I think my argument is valid to the OP. Not starting a new argument. If there is a significant difference in tanks grown by MH vs those grown from LED, then there is certainly enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that LEDs are missing something that MH had. Just look at the displays from nearly 2 decades ago. They look nothing like you see in a "modern" display.

 

[oreo54]

is that a tank under LED’s is only around 80 percent of what it could be under halides.

Sanjay’s tank is only 80 percent at most of what it used to be, and he is ok with that

right.........the operative word is OK..

That's more subjective than you think...color, growth,ease of maintenance. enjoy-ability???

like mentioned before.. if growth was THE only factor then any MH above 6500k is a failure..
If there was ONLY one spectrum why 6500, 10000,14000,20000k bulbs?
Why are there literally dozens of different t5 spectrums?

Getting back sort of to the 6500k and an example.
There is one t5 in these and one white LED
First want to say no manuf in their right mind would actually build these LED's
Second none but the one uses any "white" LEd's..and that one is only white..
third.. I didn't have >670nm LED diodes available, so deep red could be better..
Sorry no chl C ..
Green LEd's have a high smear ratio..and horribly inefficient.

 

[oreo54]

Point is you can build what you want w/ LED. Think something is missing.. Throw it in..
It's not LEd's but manuf..

 

[PDR]

How many tanks have you personally seen where someone went from LED to halide with no other changes and suddenly everything got better? Better yet, how many of those situations were there that the LEDs were adjusted by PAR and had truly enough coverage of fixtures, yet they still weren't having success? Exactly....

I believe @BoomCorals went from sb reeflight, to kessil, to halide/t5 and is getting better results now.

 

[Lasse]

Can we see some pictures from your tanks? In my build thread you can see my tank. No halides ever - not even in my tank before. Only LED. Run LED - T5 for 5 months - get back to only LED again. In another thread a Dutch reefer post a picture from his only LED tank that was a jawbreaker even for Jda. But I want to see pictures from normal MH tanks and se if they will run out LED or T5 in average.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Sallstrom]

Here's a link to a thread I started in 2005 on the other forum.

http://www.reef.......central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=667312
(Take the dots out)

These are either MH or T5. There wasn't LEDs back then.

Thanks! Those are great tanks! Really like it when people allow the corals to grow for a while.

But a quick search on Instagram gives plenty of reef tanks like that, with LEDs. Specially Asian tanks, Singapore for example has a lot of great reef tanks it seems like.

Maybe there's another reason than the type of light why most tanks don't look like that on R2R today?