6500k T5 Bulbs - Important Spectrums Missing in LEDs?

[Bpb]

I’ll answer my own question. I think a more likely scenario of our 5 year acro above is as @jda stated. I believed this to be the case immediately when reading the post, but the author indicated that the LED switch was undoubtedly the hero in this scenario. I am more inclined to believe a 5 year timespan without a crash, combined with a colony already becoming large to begin with are more reasonable explanations. Colonies do indeed grow exponentially with their size if necessary input is present. I think as long as an appropriate intensity of necessary wavelengths are provided, with appropriate coverage, any light source would have performed admirably in that instance. Ignoring nuances in color.

My gut puts my opinion more in line with Dana’s “there are no bad lights just bad application” statement“. I’m not going to sit here and insist there is a best. I’m not a successful enough aquarist to make those claims.

 

[oreo54]

None of your food is "as invented by nature".

Lasse... please. You are inventing your own environment and not even trying to duplicate the environment that they left... even if it was inefficient (plenty will disagree with this and will argue that nothing is more efficient than evolved nature). Good news is that it will only take a few millennia for corals in captivity to evolve to this new, even less efficient human-created, environment.

You seem like a smart science based guy, so I'll bet that you are all about nature, evolution and the like when it fits your narrative.

DANG, You'll even eat your own if it doesn't fit your dogma...

 

[Reefahholic]

None of your food is "as invented by nature".


DANG, You'll even eat your own if it doesn't fit your dogma...

Oreo5457....May I see your reef sir?

 

[oreo54]

Oreo5457....May I see your reef sir?

No you may not sir...
May I see your degree in Botany??

Here.. build this, put it over a tank and tell me what you think.
Upper right corner is a chart w/ an Iwasaki 6500k vs the "Fresh fish" COB's
Adding the 420nm viosys chips allows a spectrum shift from
6500k (just ff) to true 20000k (up to 8 viosys) or beyond..10 should do..

Experimental but pretty good "natural" light..
Native angle of the ff is around 120 degree.. Viosys are like 60 degrees so need to be careful.

 

[Lasse]

I’ll answer my own question. I think a more likely scenario of our 5 year acro above is as @jda stated. I believed this to be the case immediately when reading the post, but the author indicated that the LED switch was undoubtedly the hero in this scenario. I am more inclined to believe a 5 year timespan without a crash, combined with a colony already becoming large to begin with are more reasonable explanations. Colonies do indeed grow exponentially with their size if necessary input is present. I think as long as an appropriate intensity of necessary wavelengths are provided, with appropriate coverage, any light source would have performed admirably in that instance. Ignoring nuances in color.

My gut puts my opinion more in line with Dana’s “there are no bad lights just bad application” statement“. I’m not going to sit here and insist there is a best. I’m not a successful enough aquarist to make those claims.

I did not indicate anything with my picture - I only answer a question from this post

Haha but can led grow tenius this fast. JF jolt in 1 year from rap 2018 and I have cut 5 frags.

with a picture showing a coral (up in the air - there they all get brown) that have grown i LED for a long time.

I have not in any of my posts claimed that anything is better than something else but try to explain that either of the three main systems works rather well if they are used the same way. I have noted statement that MH is good if you use the right bulb - this maybe allow me to state that LED works good - if you use it the right way.

Funny also that jda mention nature and MH. The light device there the spectra looks like natural sunlight is plasma devices. If you would love to do the best imitation of sunlight - use plasma and light filters in order to achieve the light spectra at preferred depth.

You seem like a smart science based guy, so I'll bet that you are all about nature, evolution and the like when it fits your narrative.

Exactly - could not express this better by myself. However - the question arise - how well do you fit into the that statement? Are you not a "a smart science based guy", are you not "all about nature, evolution" and do you not use this to prove you right? Observe - I do not state anything about you - only ask which of these three basic statement in your sentence will not fit on you in your own eyes?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Bpb]

I have not in any of my posts claimed that anything is better than something else but try to explain that either of the three main systems works rather well if they are used the same way. I have noted statement that MH is good if you use the right bulb - this maybe allow me to state that LED works good - if you use it the right way.

this much I completelu agree with

I did not indicate anything with my picture - I only answer a question from this post

with a picture showing a coral (up in the air - there they all get brown) that have grown i LED for a long time.

apologies if there was a misinterpretation. The spirit of the statement felt like a direct good/bad type comparison.

 

[Reefahholic]

No you may not sir...
May I see your degree in Botany??

Here.. build this, put it over a tank and tell me what you think.
Upper right corner is a chart w/ an Iwasaki 6500k vs the "Fresh fish" COB's
Adding the 420nm viosys chips allows a spectrum shift from
6500k (just ff) to true 20000k (up to 8 viosys) or beyond..10 should do..

Experimental but pretty good "natural" light..
Native angle of the ff is around 120 degree.. Viosys are like 60 degrees so need to be careful.

You know I’m just messing with ya bro. My reef is only 10 months. Lol

 

[Reefahholic]

I think all lighting is good in its own way. Each have pros and cons no doubt.

I’m getting really annoyed with changing T5 bulbs but it’s a compromise I’m willing to make to receive that even blanket of light. I’d like to run Metal Halides one day though. From what I’ve seen especially with acropora...they produce some excellent results. They seem to be outgrowing about everything. This is just my personal observation and opinion.

 

[jda]

Lasse - I am not saying that we can ever totally replicate nature. I know that you know this. I am only saying that in your other dealings, your approach is spot-on with a forward approach that looks to identify a problem, understand nature and then prove nature wrong, if possible. In this lighting discussion, you are backwards with assumptions (human eye range as a basis, or that light is only needed for photosynthesis, for example) and looking to prove nature right. I truly believe that no advances in any type of lighting can happen when thinking this way... they started with a bad premise that was created to sell lights and nothing has really changed at all since people are using a backward methodology. It would have been far better to use a 350-850nm paradigm with LEDs and then see what could be eliminated with peer-reviewed proof rather than a 400-700nm paradigm and look to prove what needs to be added back in.

The problem with the second paradigm (the bad one) is that since nature was removed, there is no solid basis to start with and come back to.

I think that deep down that you have to see the error in this way of thinking and that it is hurting the evolution of LED technology. Not many true scientists would likely ever even try to duplicate a method that started with the result and worked backwards... this is pseudoscience, not real science.

 

[Reefahholic]

Lasse...May I ask a question since you’ve recently been to Germany. Do you know what T5 lamps they primarily use in their ATI fixtures? I see a lot of Blue/White combo. I’m assuming that this is ATI blue+ & ATI ABS. Or Giesemann Actinic Blue & ABS. Or possibly a coral+ but I think it looks more like 12000K.

Or if anybody knows please chime in.

 

[Lasse]

Most use a combo of three phosphate bulbs and real actinic bulbs. The three phosphate bulbs use RGB in order to trick our eyes that we see white light.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

@jda

You maybe should do a seek on RC with the word "Dream Chip" I have change my point of wiev a little since that but most thing I stated there (in the thread about multichip), is still valid for me. I have another nickname there but you will figure that out.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[oreo54]

To clarify a bit.. "actinics" are just blue phosphor..using the violet/UV as a stimulant.
No R or G except w / the mercury emission spikes for the most part..

Doubt if there is a general consensus on which, of the handful (dozens??) of RGB phosphored bulbs are err.. standard .. so to speak..anymore than here really. One thinks the world is "standardized" but it really isn't..

 

[Mortie31]

@jda

You maybe should do a seek on RC with the word "Dream Chip" I have change my point of wiev a little since that but most thing I stated there (in the thread about multichip), is still valid for me. I have another nickname there but you will figure that out.

Sincerely Lasse

I’ve never seen this thread before, these multichips are massive.... is this you doing this video on how to build one... great video btw...did you give up on this idea for home aquariums?

 

[Reefahholic]

I’ve never seen this thread before, these multichips are massive.... is this you doing this video on how to build one... great video btw...did you give up on this idea for home aquariums?

Great video! Has anybody done this yet? Looks like it would be one powerful LED!

 

[oreo54]

Great video! Has anybody done this yet? Looks like it would be one powerful LED!

DreamChip build - Page 4 - Reef Central Online Community

Page 4- DreamChip build Do It Yourself

www.reefcentral.com

Chips been around since 2012-ish..

 

[Mortie31]

Great video! Has anybody done this yet? Looks like it would be one powerful LED!

I saw @Lasse recommendation to search for dream chip and searched... there’s several threads on another forum where Lasse seemed to be a major player... so I would guess so but the threads were from a few years ago so I’m kind of wondering why we’ve not heard more of them... maybe easier to buy ready made LEDs

 

[oreo54]

I saw @Lasse recommendation to search for dream chip and searched... there’s several threads on another forum where Lasse seemed to be a major player... so I would guess so but the threads were from a few years ago so I’m kind of wondering why we’ve not heard more of them... maybe easier to buy ready made LEDs

100 watt multi-chip 5 channel LED

Looks like the answer to what a lot of people have been looking for. Like posted on Reef Builders, there is a somewhat lower threshold due to the Red LEDs. If only someone made a really good looking pendant heatsink... maybe a CPU heatsink can be modded. http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/lumia-5-1-100w-...

www.nano-reef.com

The huge thread on RC (since continued on sdreefs) was great for multichips. Now, everyone and their mom is doing one now. The 5 channel dreamchip was a mere vehicle to get things going for the hobby. Not everyone was happy with the final Dreamchip LED selection. I admit that one. I distinctly recall there was another chip to be done in parallel with the initial Dreamchip group buy. LED's were selected and everything, but when it came down to putting money to mouth, the "others" did not walk the walk. So, the Dreachip went forward alone. Anyhow, water way under the bridge. 5 channel multichips are out there for the greater good.

DIY is still a smallish sub-group...and maybe just get tired of people telling them LED's don't work.. "admitted snark"...
so they keep to themselves..

Lumia 5.1 100 watt or 100 watt "dreamchip"

Hey guys I'm looking at these new led chips that offer 5 independent channels of controllable light The lumia 5.1 has the channels like this Channel 1 - Neutral White (base white spectrum) (36V @ 700mA) Channel 2 - Royal Blue (base blue spectrum) (36V @ 700mA) Channel 3 - Hyper...

www.reef2reef.com

They have more than enough in that range, even without lenses, and you won't start losing non-fluorescing colors like what happens when you mix low-CRI cool white with royal and standard blues, which hobbyists started figuring out back in 2010 and the rest of the world is still not even trying to catch up, since everyone seems to only be interested in PAR numbers and fluorescence, which cool white-based arrays are great at. LED Aesthetics: What do you really think of your color? - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums

 

[Mortie31]

100 watt multi-chip 5 channel LED

Looks like the answer to what a lot of people have been looking for. Like posted on Reef Builders, there is a somewhat lower threshold due to the Red LEDs. If only someone made a really good looking pendant heatsink... maybe a CPU heatsink can be modded. http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/lumia-5-1-100w-...

www.nano-reef.com

DIY is still a smallish sub-group...and maybe just get tired of people telling them LED's don't work.. "admitted snark"...
so they keep to themselves..

It’s a shame if this has been buried as a very quick google search l, and so many multichips are now available covering virtually every wavelength from 330nm right upto 1050nm and there completely customisable as well from certain manufacturers... way beyond my diy skills but really interested to learn more

 

[Reefahholic]

DreamChip build - Page 4 - Reef Central Online Community

Page 4- DreamChip build Do It Yourself

www.reefcentral.com

Chips been around since 2012-ish..

I wouldn’t know. Never ran or played with LED’s. Other than what’s in my PowerModule.