668 DAYS - NO WATER CHANGES ..and going strong !

Sure, you don't HAVE to do water changes. But you DO have to replace all the elements in the water with additives. I'd think water changes would be cheaper, but whatever works for you. Not going to argue with the results.
 
this bags the question, how did trace elements became a thing in ocean? if your claim is from foods like pellets, which is dried up sea food, then technically a very established tank should self sustain those trace elements from decaying bacteria/ or larger organisms? or is it animal waste converting into trace elements through nitrogen cycle?
I don't know anything about this subject, but curios how and from what trace element came to ocean life.
I also don't believe that dried up salt can contain all or most trace elements.

That is a very interesting question. Scientists often study how each element in the ocean cycles through various forms and how long it typically lasts before being taken out of the water. There is no general rule, and all are essentially unique..

Many elements cycle between forms as organisms are eaten and digested, releasing some of the elements in them back to the water.

Some elements have substantial additions from land erosion.

Some even come from things like dust landing on the ocean (a substantial contributor to iron in some locations).

As an example, this wikipedia page has a nice image of the iron cycle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_cycle
 
Those are the questions you were answering? The first two questions were before the post I was responding to. The last question you didn't answer, but was looking for confirmation.

Anyhew, you didn't answer the question about what types of corals you have. That would be useful to know, for someone who wants to decide if your situation is applicable to them.

And one point I was trying to stress, that your statement "If you do water changes, you’re getting trace replenishment" seems to contradict, is that it is not possible to maintain NSW levels of trace elements through water changes alone, if your salt mix contains NSW levels. And this is an issue if your traces are getting depleted, which is generally true in every reef tank. I know you know this, but it seems that some people are confused about that.

My responses were contextual to your posts and the rest of the thread, not a singular inline thought. I am not sure how else to say that I don’t have anything to argue.

I keep SPS of various types. I couldn’t give you the street name of any other than home wrecker, and I only know that because somebody gave me a frag and remember placing it — and it grows slower than anything else in the tank. I have a billion mushrooms and blue ridge, neither of which can t be eradicated. There are a few hammers. A Platygrya that is 20+ years old.

There was nothing contradictory in what I said. Trace is replenished by water changes or dosing and augmented by feeding. I am not concerned with trying to maintain NSW levels. I am not going to argue one way or the other if the replacements match, exceed or fall short of any given NSW trace, or if NSW level of any given trace are required or what the maximum or minimus can be or should be. There are too many variables -- but even in that, not something I am concerned with testing for at the trace (ICP) level.

Does the Triton system replace everything in a balanced fashion? I don’t know, but I have used it since January of 2023. Do water changes? It depends on what is in the salt mix a d if it is higher than NSW and the size and frequency of the water changes, as well as system uptake. But again, we also import trace with food and maintaining NSW levels is not something that I personally worry about.

Regarding “my method”. I really don’t have one, unless you call winging it a method. I spend less than an hour or two a month fiddling with the tank in any fashion. I loathe water changes and testing. I react to problems logically when they arise.

I would encourage others to do water changes and at least do basic testing. My method is the culmination of decades of keeping aquaria and what works for me. It is not static method and has evolved over time, but boils down to: observe and adjust as needed.

Do your water changes, eat your vegetables and be nice to your mother. Good advice for most people. Don't do what I do or you may run into problems. I am only explaining what I do because it came up in context.
 
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Stunning tank! Well done ( no WC works!) Hey, if it works, don't change a thing. I've been on the trace program for over 3 years now, and no regular WC as well, and I love it. The only problem I have is corlas are overgown now lol Happy reefing!
 
This. People talk about water changes as if they're a way to replace trace elements. If your system is depleting trace elements, unless you do 100% water changes frequently (very frequently), it's impossible for water changes to replace what was depleted. Unless your salt mix has elevated trace elements, which I don't think any do.

So you do need to add trace elements, through moonshine or whatever other system you use. But water changes are still needed - to ~remove~, not ~add~, stuff. Without water changes, bad things can eventually build up to dangerous levels. Your system will be fine until you reach a tipping point. Everything will be absolutely wonderfully 100% fine. Until it's not.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know everything, but what I'm saying above is what makes sense to me

Stunning tank! Well done ( no WC works!) Hey, if it works, don't change a thing. I've been on the trace program for over 3 years now, and no regular WC as well, and I love it. The only problem I have is corlas are overgown now lol Happy reefing!

Your tank is ALWAYS an inspiration!!!!!
 
May the Shine be with you ;-)

Tank looks amazing, keep up the good work, passion and efforts that go into this tank that are not to underestimate however!

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May the Shine be with you ;-)

Tank looks amazing, keep up the good work, passion and efforts that go into this tank that are not to underestimate however!

1758079225169.png
Shine on !!! Thank you so much !!
 
The evidence is becoming pretty clear that in general, trace element additions can play a very important roll in the long term success and stability of a reef tank.

While many reefers are very successful by simply feeding the tank and performing water changes, many others including myself run into difficulties. These difficulties can include poor overall coral health, or even a tank crash after a period without water change. As I have said a few time, my 5 gal SPS mixed tank cannot go more than a couple weeks without a 40% water change before the SPS decline and tissue starts to detach. With trace element addition the tank can go months and months without a water change. I have seen this decline play out with larger tanks on a longer time scale many times.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that users of All For Reef generally have great success and beautiful tanks. I believe its due in great part to AFR including the TM AK trace element package in the product. Even if you supplement with kalkwasser, or 2-part, or reactor, I think there is still more than enough trace addition to make a big difference. And while it’s typically expensive and a pain to test and dose individual elements, it’s hard to argue that in general Moonshiner tanks are not also beautiful and very successful.

Regardless of the source, AFR, TM AK, Moonshiners, Triton, etc, the evidence consistently points to trace element addition being very good for a colorful and stable reef tank.
 
Sure, you don't HAVE to do water changes. But you DO have to replace all the elements in the water with additives. I'd think water changes would be cheaper, but whatever works for you.

That would be an incorrect assumption for this simple reason:

A water change is not adding much in the way of trace elements (a 10% change cannot add more than 10% of what is in a salt mix), and you have to buy all sorts of other ions at far, far higher concentration, which drives the cost. Calcium, magnesium, sulfate, potassium, etc. Mostly wasted money if the purpose is to add trace elements.
 
When i started this hobby in 2014 (thanks to my hubby for getting us into the hobby) I was always preached to by LFS, water change water change water change...well thats not always the case...im going on nearly 2 years now with my Waterbox 155.5 Infinia frag with not a single water change !!! With the diligence of keeping parameters in check ... and in all honestly im reall not that strickt in myself....monthly (or every other month or so) ICP tests and the discipline i have found for myself in Reef Moonshiner's this has been an amazing journey....tank is thriving...I am keeping almost every type of coral...SPS...LPS...softies, gargonians....everything from leathers, acropora, zoas to gonis .
This tank is run on the basics of equipment... filter floss filtration ( pillow stuffing from Walmart) , cheato and miracle mud in the refugium, skimmer and uv , running at night.
Auto dosing calcium, alkalinity, iron and manganese.

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Corals like dirty water. I take a cup (plastic drinking cup) of water out, and add a cup of saltwater to my tanks when I feed, and top off as needed. When I first got in years ago everything died when I changed the water so I stopped. Unless things start looking bad, or an anemone dies I don’t do water changes. I have a 75g with 2 hang in filters only. Going on 5 years now with no issues. I do keep them clean, and check my water every other week.
 
Corals like dirty water. I take a cup (plastic drinking cup) of water out, and add a cup of saltwater to my tanks when I feed, and top off as needed. When I first got in years ago everything died when I changed the water so I stopped. Unless things start looking bad, or an anemone dies I don’t do water changes. I have a 75g with 2 hang in filters only. Going on 5 years now with no issues. I do keep them clean, and check my water every other week.
Agreed....besides the one I have at home that is on moonshiners and I monitor traces and major elements...I also have the 90 gal in my office that I do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to....granted it only has gsp and a few other softies and about 20 bt anenomes ..but I check NOTHING lol ...I can't remember when I did WC ....soooo 🤷‍♀️
 

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I am over 20 years into this tank. For the last 10 or so, I haven’t done any water changes. I have never run an ICP test. I rarely test anything but daily alkalinity. Calcium and magnesium maybe every few months. I used to test nitrate and phosphate with a ReefBot but gave that up because it was too much of a hassle too.
Please post a picture of the tank.
 
Well that is a wonderful thing. Good for you that your closed system is free of toxin buildup, pollutants and PFAS (forever chemicals).
But sarcasm aside, your post is a double edge sword for reefers. On one hand, while not sustainable, a no water change tank is possible if you are adept at keeping a reef tank. You are exchanging the effort/cost of doing water changes with the effort/cost of closely monitoring the water chemistry of your tank and making the necessary adjustments.
But in honesty, corals are going to die because a new reefer only read " two years and no water changes"
and that's what they will do... Then I will have to read and maybe respond to a post of " All my corals die.. why?"
A better title might have been, "Almost two years without a water change and this is how I did it".
Just Sayin...
Getting the average reefer to pay for all them test on a regular basis and then buy dosing pumps. And then buy all the elements that is required. And then dose properly so the element stay balanced. One would be better off by just changing water. Especially now with the automatic water changers that are out there. I love mine and wouldn’t trade it for the world.
 
That would be an incorrect assumption for this simple reason:

A water change is not adding much in the way of trace elements (a 10% change cannot add more than 10% of what is in a salt mix), and you have to buy all sorts of other ions at far, far higher concentration, which drives the cost. Calcium, magnesium, sulfate, potassium, etc. Mostly wasted money if the purpose is to add trace elements.
I'll admit I'm not an additives expert, but doing water changes replaces trace elements. Yeah, maybe not 100% at a time, but slowly. They're not consumed 100% at a time so replacing them gradually should work fine; always has for me.

Again, everyone is free to do things how they want. I have an Apex and DOS and do daily water changes. Have to mix up some saltwater in the basement every 10d or so and that's it (and I can service multiple tanks at a time from that). No measuring additives or buying additives. When I did consider the additives route they were quite expensive compared to salt, but prices on everything has gone up since then so who knows. I would think buying salt is cheaper than additives, but I don't know that for a fact. I do know it's definitely easier and gets the job done. It also helps remove things like nitrates and phosphates which depending on your bioload doing no water changes might not be an option. Certainly for a coral only or coral dominant tank it can be a great idea.

It's the standard way of doing things for a reason; it works. Doesn't mean it's the only way, probably just the best way. There are certainly situations where doing no water changes will work just fine, even great. But I would surmise that's a minority of aquariums. But I thank the OP for bringing us this interesting case study.
 
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Very interesting thread and educational. I am intrigued!

I have a question, maybe two. At what bio-load and tank maturity (maybe period or some other thumb rule) this no water change equillibrium can be achieved?

please chime in...
 
Also if you were on the team “no water changes” your corals would not have to go through this ever couple weeks… 50% ish of my coral is out of the water…
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If any one worried about corals being exposed to the air, watch first minute of this link..
 
When I used to do water changes (over a decade ago) — they were often huge. Sometimes, draining the display, only leaving enough water for fish to hide on the bottom. Other times half of the display and all of the sump, etc.

Countless annual frag workshop to teach club members how to frag. Corals sitting on table in open air for minutes to hours. LPS, SPS, Softies, cheap, expensive. Don’t stress about “air”.
 

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