.85ppm Phosphate, should I worry?

[arking_mark]

A little background:

- 7 years old 34gal mixed reef with mostly softies
- About 6 months ago started to switch to ULM in preparation for my next tank
- ATO, AWC, alk controlled dosing, and auto feeder
- Tank was fallow until mid Oct due to a Ick cross contamination
- Switched salts to accommodate Triton
- Other then Triton Core 7, I dose Reef Energy AB, and Vibrant occasionally to keep my very small amount of GHA in check (really just one small spot in the tank)
- Added a Candy Basslet over a month ago
- Added a Bella Gobi and Whitetail Bristletooth Tang two weeks ago
- Just moved my lone surviving clown to the tank

Since incremental AWC, tank has never looked better, was doing about 3% a day

As I'm preparing to be away from the tank for about 2 weeks, I'm reducing AWC by half so my small storage tank will stretch for that time...and using my new Hanna checkers to ensure everything is looking good.

Alk is a little high 9ish, my target is 8 (I've been fighting this unsuccessfully); calcium was in the 400s; salinity 1.025; PH 7.9-8.06 ( a little low due to high CO2 in home); could not get the Hanna Nitrate Checker to work (user error probably)....

And then I check Phosphate and double check it....and its .85ppm

I check my fresh Neomarine saltwater and find .06ppm (much higher than expected...but probably acceptable to go into a mature tank)

At .85ppm, I'd expect my Walt Disney, kung pow, and Jack-o-lantern frags to be complaining. They look great.

My only issues have been my Yuma and Ricordea mushrooms not doing so well. I assumed this was from having too low nutrients...and my newer zoas are not thriving. My older Palys are doing great. My 6 plus inch clam is happy as a clam, my bounce mushrooms are bouncing...

But .85ppm seems like way too high when most people target .1ppm as high.

Am I missing something? Should I work to reduce the Phosphate? Do I maybe have a Nitrate problem too?

I am sending water samples for ICP testing just to really see what's going on...but am quite surprised and perplexed by this unexpected reading.

 

[Auto-pilot]

I'm curious on what your nitrates are at. Sometimes if they bottom out phosphates dont get used as they are both "building blocks" to alot of things that grow. My phosphates tend to creep up on me all the time and I end up using phosphate rx to bring them down. Ive had my phosphates that high a couple of times and things were ok but not growing or super happy.

 

[arking_mark]

I'm curious on what your nitrates are at. Sometimes if they bottom out phosphates dont get used as they are both "building blocks" to alot of things that grow. My phosphates tend to creep up on me all the time and I end up using phosphate rx to bring them down. Ive had my phosphates that high a couple of times and things were ok but not growing or super happy.

Me too. I tried the Hanna Nitrate Checker 3 times and couldn't get it to provide a measurement. I gave up and ordered a Nyos Nitrate test kit.

I also ordered a phosphate pad filter to help reduce phosphate and Nyos Zero to keep it more in check.

I really have no algae in the tank besides my small pet GHA. Its in one spot and basically never really grows. Vibrant has started to get rid of it...

 

[Auto-pilot]

Just dont panic and strip all of the phosphates from the water! I've done that and found out that that can be just as harmful as having too much

 

[arking_mark]

Just dont panic and strip all of the phosphates from the water! I've done that and found out that that can be just as harmful as having too much

Yes. Nothing good happens quickly in a tank. Hence just starting with the filter pads. As this is a 34gal AIO, the pads will only be very small to fit in the overflow. Which should just result in a small reduction of Phosphate at a time. The Nyos Zero will be dosed once I figure out whats really going on. Its not a fast acting supplement (I believe mostly carbon dosing).

 

[Auto-pilot]

Carbon dosing is extremely effective in my tank. I think because it's old. I use NOPOX once and the next day phosphates and nitrates are super low. Because of that carbon dosing scares me!

 

[arking_mark]

Possible causes for my high Phosphate:

1. Auto feeder is providing too much food
2. New fish
3. Bella Goby sand sifting is releasing Phosphate from my DSB
4. Its an old tank and rock/sand is leaching back
5. Some combo of above

 

[arking_mark]

Carbon dosing is extremely effective in my tank. I think because it's old. I use NOPOX once and the next day phosphates and nitrates are super low. Because of that carbon dosing scares me!

Good to know. I'll take it very slowly with a doser.

 

[Auto-pilot]

Possible causes for my high Phosphate:

1. Auto feeder is providing too much food
2. New fish
3. Bella Goby sand sifting is releasing Phosphate from my DSB
4. Its an old tank and rock/sand is leaching back
5. Some combo of above

I'd say 23and 4

 

[KrisReef]

Just to be sure, my older Hanna ULR reads in ppBillion phosphorus and I use a table to calculate ppMillion phosphate.

(.85 ppb = .261 ppm which is still high, but not quite as elevated. ) Just guessing and wondering, not bashing.

Does the vial turn a pretty blue when you are testing? The other issue could be Hanna reagents? It will be interesting to see what the ICP test reads.

 

[arking_mark]

Just to be sure, my older Hanna ULR reads in ppBillion phosphorus and I use a table to calculate ppMillion phosphate.

(.85 ppb = .261 ppm which is still high, but not quite as elevated. ) Just guessing and wondering, not bashing.

Does the vial turn a pretty blue when you are testing? The other issue could be Hanna reagents? It will be interesting to see what the ICP test reads.

Meter says ppm on it...it turns a light blue.

 

[dwest]

If your WD acro is great, I would consider doing nothing. If your nitrates are really zero, you might want to add nitrates very slowly and monitor phosphates for now. I would at least wait until your icp test comes back.

 

[arking_mark]

Rechecked Phosphate with the Hanna ULR Checker and still have .85ppm. It's super consistent at least.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Possible causes for my high Phosphate:

1. Auto feeder is providing too much food
2. New fish
3. Bella Goby sand sifting is releasing Phosphate from my DSB
4. Its an old tank and rock/sand is leaching back
5. Some combo of above

That presumes a source is the "problem", rather than all of those are just right and you do not have sufficient export.

 

[arking_mark]

That presumes a source is the "problem", rather than all of those are just right and you do not have sufficient export.

That is what I was thinking as well. I thought with the 3% daily AWC, Phosphate and Nitrate would be very low. Stretching ths AWC while away had me a little concerned so I wanted to get a better baseline of my parameters. So the plan now is:
1. Slowly get Phosphate under better control (use some phosphate filter pads and start some carbon dosing).
2. Get a better Nitrate Test to test Nitrate
3. ICP Test to better understand all my parameters
4. Go on vacation and still come back to a healthy tank

The funny thing is I always thought high phosphate = algae problems.

The tank has been so clean, I barely have to clean the glass!!!

The only algae I have is a single small area of hair algae that is going away with Vibrance.

I used to have a good amount of calerpa prolifera in the tank but disappeared over the years. I still have a very healthy small observation tank with a ton of it.

Every time I have added some of it back to the display tank, it just doesn't seem to thrive. Even more perplexing is that recently, I added the observation tank to the AWC, but instead of fresh saltwater, it gets its water from the display tank...which has resulted in the calerpa prolifera having explosive growth. Again perplexing me.

 

[arking_mark]

Some pictures...

Observation tank...tons of calerpa and needs glass cleaning...

Main tank, haven't cleaned the glass in weeks...

My small GHA area...

 

[schuby]

That presumes a source is the "problem", rather than all of those are just right and you do not have sufficient export.

Continuing with Randy's statement, what have you been doing for 7 years to export nutrients? You don't mention a sump, refugium, skimmer, or ATS. Our tanks are closed systems. If we put nutrients in then we must take them out in somewhat equal amounts.

As an observation, if the lights are on in both tanks pictured, the observation tank seems to have a brighter light. That may be one reason why the macro algae grows there and not in the other tank.

 

[MERKEY]

What ever you do be careful with that clam and lowering phos too quickly....I've seen many go due to clean water too fast.

Slow and steady!

 

[arking_mark]

Continuing with Randy's statement, what have you been doing for 7 years to export nutrients? You don't mention a sump, refugium, skimmer, or ATS. Our tanks are closed systems. If we put nutrients in then we must take them out in somewhat equal amounts.

As an observation, if the lights are on in both tanks pictured, the observation tank seems to have a brighter light. That may be one reason why the macro algae grows there and not in the other tank.

There is a TUNZE nano skimmer on the tank that was pretty active till the AWC. I used to empty it weekly...it would be pretty full. Now I still empty it weekly but it maybe 1/6 full.

Lights on the main tank don't really come on till 10am and ramp up from there. The observation tank light is at lowest setting at 8am but otherwise mimics the display tank. Also, room lights are above the observation tank.

Main tank has a Kessil a360x and has the par dialed in pretty high.

The observation tank is using a Kessil a160 and a much lower par dialed in.

 

[arking_mark]

There is a TUNZE nano skimmer on the tank that was pretty active till the AWC. I used to empty it weekly...it would be pretty full. Now I still empty it weekly but it maybe 1/6 full.

Lights on the main tank don't really come on till 10am and ramp up from there. The observation tank light is at lowest setting at 8am but otherwise mimics the display tank. Also, room lights are above the observation tank.

Main tank has a Kessil a360x and has the par dialed in pretty high.

The observation tank is using a Kessil a160 and a much lower par dialed in.

I should say, I'm not a big believer of skimmers as an effective part of filtration. I guess my main export is water changes and chemipure blue.