A master plan to reduce my nitrates (I need opinions on this)

[Katze]

Hello everyone !

Things to know about the tank
~200l (+55g) total
+1.5 years old,
-Nitrate is always either 100 or 75 but over 50 (salifert)
-PO4 usually 0.05-0.08 at most (Hanna PO4 ULR)
About it's nitrogen cycle
cycled with about 40% live rock, fishless with dosing bacteria
-> after the cycle I always had a reading of 100 in nitrates on salifert (backed up by hanna HR)

Livestock
Scopas tang, Dragonet, Anthias, Damselfish, fire goby, (all of them are on the smaller scale)
->they get less than half a cube of mysis 1x/day
->LPS usually die... except torches?!
->Softies grow very well especially zoas.

Filtration
Bubble Magus NAC5 (pretty good skimmate, some times it's the very wet kind)
2 handful of ceramic cylinders
1 sponge

15-10% waterchange /week

The plan

I'm planning to do 2x100 waterchange, which should end with about 25ppm NO3
I'll dose 2-3mls of nopox + Na3PO4 to keep up with the phosphate consumption
Finally the most important, getting a new skimmer (Red Sea RSK300).

I'm interested in your opinions in terms of executing the plan mentioned above!

 

[BanZI29]

I my opinion, have you looked for the source of the nitrate?
for the water change, not that big. I would half that. you don't wanna shock the system as that will also change all your other params.
do you have a refugium or have chaeto or some other kind of macro algae?
if not, try getting a big chuck of chaeto and get it in your sump. that will help with the nitrates.

 

[doubleshot00]

I would focus on WC's for right now. Start by doing a 15 gal WC then wait 2-3 days and do another. Then test and see how its its went down. Just make sure your PO4 doesn't read zero. I would keep the bubble magnus skimmer. The red sea skimmer is not as good as you might think.

 

[Pntbll687]

You'll probably need to dose phosphate after doing those big water changes, very likely it would bottom out with any amount of consumption from the tank.

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

You can absolutly do your plan. Make sure you use same salt mix and temp is about the same. I did 100 percent weekly water changes on my picos for years. Its the same for any just more expensive for larger. But still need to find source of nitrate being high. Either there isnt enough nitraye consumption and its just sitting there, or its being produced high rate. After the water change, see how quickly it comes back up.

Where did you get the rock and sand if there is sand from?

 

[Katze]

I have no idea where the NO3 comes from, the RODI water has 0ppm with 0TDS.
The tank always had it this high regardless of the amount of waterchanges done, however it never goes above 100ppm.
I even tried carbon dosing, with no succes, usually the PO4 went down but never the nitrate.
Sand wasn't live, but dry. Rock from lfs, they have <5ppm NO3 in that tank at MAX.

 

[Katze]

In terms of refugium I have one but the algae needs more light so upgrading that light is planned, the algae is not dieing there but not growing either.

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

Since it has been high since day one, its either leaching from rocks or sand. As rest is just equipment. Did you dose any ammonia as well?. Do you have sand and was it clean or pulled from another system?

So far im leaning towards your live rock at this point since it was in a system of nitrates. So now curious about sand.

 

[Katze]

Sand was store bought, fresh from the package. No ammonia dosed. Only: Prodibio bioptim and prodibio biodigest.

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

Sand was store bought, fresh from the package. No ammonia dosed. Only: Prodibio bioptim and prodibio biodige

So this points me back to rock. If you setup in beginning and during cycling with live rock and you have always had high nitrate, then its probably from the rock. Looking at other threads, you had salinity at 1.024 which is a bit low and brought up to 1.025. You also had some die off you stated.
How do you clean your filter sock?

 

[jda]

People don't always agree with me on this, but I have found that macro and especially chaeto will grow better with lower no3 and even po4 - not that it stops growing with higher levels, but just not as fast.

When you change that water, see if there is debris and gunk that you can suck off of the rocks.

If you don't have 3" of sand, you could add some and it will eventually form anoxic areas and turn nitrate into nitrogen gas - this can take some months.

 

[Idech]

I have no idea where the NO3 comes from, the RODI water has 0ppm with 0TDS.

Did you do a big water change after cycling ? If not, then that’s where they come from.

 

[ReefGeezer]

1. Do your big water changes as planned... carefully. The math says 25 ppm, but expect it to be somewhat higher when tested. That's ok. After that maintain your normal water change schedule.

2. Carbon dosing will work from there... but... you will need an adequate phosphate level. You might have to dose some. Don't mess around with phosphate supplements from the LFS. Get some Trisodium Phosphate from Amazon and make your own stock solution. It is easy and there are plenty of instructions available on R2R or Google. Don't mess with carbon dosing supplements from the LFS either. Use regular old white vinegar. Again, there are plenty of instructions available for using vinegar.

3. A better skimmer will help the carbon dosing process, but it should still work with your current one. More light on your fuge would help also. If you haven't ordered the Red Sea skimmer already, look at Reef Octopus or Aqua Max. Just personal opinion, but I like them better for the money.

4. If your sand is less than 3" deep, vacuum it aggressively during the water changes.

 

[Pod_01]

I have no idea where the NO3 comes from, the RODI water has 0ppm with 0TDS.

Did you measure your NO2?
Most test kits get incorrect reading if NO2 is present and correction needs to be made.

Just my opinion:

2 handful of ceramic cylinders
1 sponge

Since you have live rock (40% based on the description) you are overdoing it with the ceramic cylinders /sponge etc…. There is such a thing as too much filtration, your live rock should be enough. My suggestion is to slowly remove the other filtration.

Also if you decide to use NOPOX use 0.25-0.5ml at most.

For reference I have Reefer250 with similar fish load and my recent PO4/NO3 are:

some LPS:

For additional filtration I use skimmer and activated carbon(30/40ml for my tank changed once a month). I don’t have socks, fuge, fleece roller etc… I use TM NP Bacto Ballance but 0.4ml a day. But I do feed lot more pellet food few times a day, coral food, plankton.

PO4 can leach from rocks and sand etc... NO3 doesn’t leach it is in water or consumed by algae or bacteria.

Anyways what ever you decide to do try to make slow changes over weeks or months if possible.
Good things do not happen fast in a reef tank.

Good luck,

 

[Katze]

So this points me back to rock. If you setup in beginning and during cycling with live rock and you have always had high nitrate, then its probably from the rock. Looking at other threads, you had salinity at 1.024 which is a bit low and brought up to 1.025. You also had some die off you stated.
How do you clean your filter sock?

Indeed I had larger problems with lps, the light was extremely low. But I still can't keep lps, except torch corals. (I tested: torch is living and looks lovely, 3x acans 2x died 1 is in my lfs for rehabilitation after 1-2 months of degradation)
Tapwater then washing machine and at the end a rinse in RODI water.
In the end I removed the sock since it did not help.

Did you do a big water change after cycling ? If not, then that’s where they come from.

Yes, which did not help either.

1. Do your big water changes as planned... carefully. The math says 25 ppm, but expect it to be somewhat higher when tested. That's ok. After that maintain your normal water change schedule.

2. Carbon dosing will work from there... but... you will need an adequate phosphate level. You might have to dose some. Don't mess around with phosphate supplements from the LFS. Get some Trisodium Phosphate from Amazon and make your own stock solution. It is easy and there are plenty of instructions available on R2R or Google. Don't mess with carbon dosing supplements from the LFS either. Use regular old white vinegar. Again, there are plenty of instructions available for using vinegar.

3. A better skimmer will help the carbon dosing process, but it should still work with your current one. More light on your fuge would help also. If you haven't ordered the Red Sea skimmer already, look at Reef Octopus or Aqua Max. Just personal opinion, but I like them better for the money.

4. If your sand is less than 3" deep, vacuum it aggressively during the water changes.

I chose Red Sea because my lfs has a used one, with half the price in perfect condition and I like the features.
And unfortunately most of those are not available for me.

 

[Idech]

Yes, which did not help either.

It’s impossible not to see a decrease in nitrates after a significant water change. Unless they were off the charts, in which case you should do a diluted test to properly measure nitrate levels.

If you saw no difference whatsoever, even with a diluted test, then your test kit has to be faulty.

 

[Katze]

My lfs' kit + Hanna HR reads the same as far as I can remember hanna couldn't even measure it.
Regardless, I'd like to do a diluted test, tell me what needs to be done.

I'm going to go with 4x 55l (15g) waterchanges, 2-3 days apart (+ carbon after each WC)

 

[vetteguy53081]

As discussed:
Water changes and water changes
algae scrubber
refugium
skimming

 

[Nate Chalk]

Weird I struggle to keep any nitrate. I dose many ppm daily just to register.

I run a skimmer full time, and have a small display fuge on my 250g system.

I feed heavy even. Have a medium fish load.

 

[Idech]

My lfs' kit + Hanna HR reads the same as far as I can remember hanna couldn't even measure it.
Regardless, I'd like to do a diluted test, tell me what needs to be done.

I’ve never had to do it myself but I found these threads where they explain it :

Hanna HR Nitrate Checker - How to dilute if over 75ppm?

I purchased the Hanna HR Nitrate checker and my first test came out flashing 75ppm, so outside of what the device can read. The instructions say to dilute the sample and repeat, but it doesn’t say by how much. Has anyone ever done this in order to get an accurate reading?

www.reef2reef.com

Nitrate testing with dilution

I want a higher accuracy from my API Nitrate test kit. I know I should dilute the water and then multiply. But with what? I can think of three different ways to dilute Measure out 50ml of tank water, and test Add 45ml of RO to 5ml of tank water, and test Add 45 ml of RO to 5ml of tank water...

www.plantedtank.net