A real "LED X halide" thread, scientifically. LOL!

[rtparty]

That video was so poorly done they should be embarrassed to have shot and released it

Mistakes made all over the place with absolutely zero science used or talked about. Just a bunch of conjecture and false assumptions.

UVB is not needed or wanted in any way.

 

[xabo]

I suspect the halide will give faster growth to most corals from past experience.

Does "faster growth" necessarily mean or equates to "better growth"?

 

[X-37B]

Does "faster growth" necessarily mean or equates to "better growth"?

No!
Thats not what I said.
I never said better as I have all tanks on leds now and they grow and are very healthy, imo.
I just want to document the difference in growth

Better is a realative term when used with no science behind it.

IMO, the video is just a sales promotion or at least tried to be.

 

[xabo]

No!
Thats not what I said.
I never said better as I have all tanks on leds now and they grow and are very healthy, imo.
I just want to document the difference in growth

Better is a realative term when used with no science behind it.

IMO, the video is just a sales promotion or at least tried to be.

Was not implying as to what you said. Was just asking. Perhaps I should've said "healthier" growth.

 

[X-37B]

Was not implying as to what you said. Was just asking. Perhaps I should've said "healthier" growth.

Got it. I get plenty of growth at an alk of 7. Both with halides and leds the growth is close.
Healthy is again subjective.
All coral in my 2 current systems came from my 120 on halides.
Thier are subtle difference in color and growth but from my point of view its not relavent as all are in excellent health and growing faster than I can trim them.

 

[xabo]

Sounds good..................I hope to get there one day

 

[JCOLE]

This isn't directed at anyone. I think the main issue with everything related to MH is availability. People are blind, naive, or just being a shill for LED if they cannot see what has happened over the last couple of years. When you have the biggest player of aquarium goods in the industry removing all halide gear from their site and promoting nothing but LEDs then this is what you get.

Don't get me wrong. If I was in their shoes to make money then I would probably do the same. They know that the money is in the LEDs. There is a lot more in return profit and it's recurring since most will buy a new fixture within 5 years or upgrade to the newest version.

All of the light videos over the last 5 years or so have all been on LEDs. No comparison with halides and other lights. Sure you might find a couple from years ago but it was not pushed down everyone's throat like LEDs. If they did comparison and promoting videos of Halides then they know which one people would buy. Their LED sales would not be where they are today. So what's the easiest way around this? Just eliminate it from your site and speak no words of it. Let it die by them and new hobbyists will eventually know nothing of it.

I am not here to shill for MH as I love T5s and LEDs as well. I feel they ALL have a place in the hobby and I feel that the biggest complaint from MH users is availability. It's not that MH is better. It's that MH is one of the best and it sure seems like the big names want to see it die out.

If the big names would have sold direct from Hamilton, etc then I am positive these companies would still be producing instead of dying out.

 

[Eric R.]

I agree partially. I think the issue is that people who like to use MH are rightfully concerned about lack of availability presently and especially in the future. MH used to be king and was widely available. Not anymore. If I really enjoyed using MHs, I would be concerned as well.

However, I feel like I often see posts that blame things other than changing preferences and falling demand, both within the SW hobby and more broadly. Or the seemingly never ending argument that LEDs are somehow deficient at growing coral, compared to MH, though I have yet to see convincing evidence of this being true, and in fact see much evidence that supports the opposite.

 

[Semisonyx]

That video was so poorly done they should be embarrassed to have shot and released it

Mistakes made all over the place with absolutely zero science used or talked about. Just a bunch of conjecture and false assumptions.

UVB is not needed or wanted in any way.

I agree. The best thing in this video was at the end when Melev said (to paraphrase) “If what you’re currently doing works for your tank, don’t change anything.”

 

[BurgerFish]

Not all kits are expensive nor do they need to be replenished in that timeline. Proper research and design mitigates both of these points. We should really stop perpetuating these types of statements

I have a T5 in one tank, replaced the bulb every year. The tank is bright, colors are very good. No shadowing.

I have another tank with LED. After 3.5y corals stopped growing, the tank became an algae factory. I replaced the LED with Kessil. Algaes are disappeared, but colors are very far from T5 and shadowing is a real issue. Now I need to add another Kessil.

I like more T5/Halide way, it's cheaper, after every bulb replacement the light bacome as new. And no shadowing.

 

[areefer01]

I have a T5 in one tank, replaced the bulb every year. The tank is bright, colors are very good. No shadowing.

That is great but not what I was talking about. Who uses what is none of my business nor does it matter to me. I was saying that LED kits are not necessarily expensive and hobbyist should stop spreading that narrative.

LED manufactures will provide a life expectancy in an hour format but even then we are talking 20,000 hours or so if not more. Depending on the manufacture, quality, etc. Thermals and cooling obviously come into play as does the hobbyist care of them.

The fact that hobbyist still feel the need to defend their bias is beyond me and we should all move past this. Group hug?

 

[oreo54]

The thing is there was one point where BRS reported their sales on, I believe t5's, a fairly equivalent tech (glass bulbs, bulky fixtures)
Believe they reported like 100 light units sold but sold 100,000 bulbs in 5 years.
One doesn't warehouse 500 units on sales figures like that.
Buying in small lots cuts into profit margins and going drop shipped from "factory direct" never went over well with retailers.


Their conclusion was mostly the "old guard" was buying. Those in no need of "hardware" so to speak.
Right or wrong, just on looks, function and convenience alone MH's will suffer.
Only way to change the tide is prove leds don't work and THAT ship has sailed.
A couple of mm growth or a 5 degree difference in stem angle isn't enough for the majority.

 

[Thales]

I think MH are the vinyl records of the reef world. They are fine, but the utility and convienience of other products is overwhelming compared to the benefits that some people see. To bring them back into the mainstream it is going to need to be robustly demonstrated that MH have significant benefits over other products.

 

[oreo54]

I think MH are the vinyl records of the reef world. They are fine, but the utility and convienience of other products is overwhelming compared to the benefits that some people see. To bring them back into the mainstream it is going to need to be robustly demonstrated that MH have significant benefits over other products.

No UV or IR photons we're harmed in the making of his corals .

therman's 12 year old SPS system...top down shot, starting to enjoy this tank again

I am not good at sharing images of my tanks. I'm terrible at keeping glass clean. I really enjoy seeing corals grow out into healthy colonies from small frags. On that note, this 36x36x18 tank was set up first in 2010, moved to a new house in 2012, and nearly crashed (due entirely to my...

www.reef2reef.com

Just for fun....

 

[JCOLE]

I think MH are the vinyl records of the reef world. They are fine, but the utility and convienience of other products is overwhelming compared to the benefits that some people see. To bring them back into the mainstream it is going to need to be robustly demonstrated that MH have significant benefits over other products.

Utility and convivence, sure. But what about cost? Depending on the size of someone's tank and what they are keeping could potentially cost them $10k or more in LEDs. When that is eventually your only light option then what are you left with?

 

[Colt13]

this whole thread/conversation is derivative, but i think it can be summarized as: MH may grow coral marginally better than T5/LED (although this hasn't been proven and is anecdotal), and may produce a better look to some people. But, to 99% of hobbyists, the pros of T5/LED simply outweigh the pros of MH.
When it comes down to it, most hobbyists don't want something so industrial looking in their home, they'd rather treat their tank as a piece of art/furniture, so aesthetics matter. (also, the windex-look trend in reef lighting contributed to the MH downward spiral). Overall, I really believe most hobbyists are aware of the potential pros of MH....but don't care.

 

[areefer01]

Utility and convivence, sure. But what about cost? Depending on the size of someone's tank and what they are keeping could potentially cost them $10k or more in LEDs. When that is eventually your only light option then what are you left with?

Budget. Then start the research and design to fall within. This also includes the animals one wants to keep to include maintenance and what not to keep it running.

There are enough light kits out there regardless of bulb or diode to meet everyone's needs to be successful. Sure lighting a 110" 430 US gallon tank with ATI Straton Pros could run a hobbyist several thousand dollars but similar numbers could be had at a fraction of the cost if one used say a ReefFi or other product.

Note I'm not pushing any specific light or type of light as that doesn't matter. However when one asks what options are there to limit cost then living within ones means is the answer. Budget, research, and design. Ignore the noise from social media saying you need ABC to be successful.

 

[Spare time]

Some MH users do the same thing though right?
I am confused why some MH fans feel like victims.

Lol no one on here attacks metal halides. 99% of the time its halide and t5 users attacking LEDs. A lot of MH and some t5 users on here are bigger fanboys that the girls crying and passing out at the old beatles concerts lol. Its absolutely hilarious how fiery these people get over a light bulb. Its just such an unnecessary argument that time and time again pops up on here.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Why so much love and passion for metal halides? I’ve only used leds but it seems like if you wanted to be so passionate about a light then I feel like t5 would be the best choice. Considering most people have to supplement their lighting with t5 why not go full fanboy for t5 instead?

 

[Thales]

Utility and convivence, sure. But what about cost? Depending on the size of someone's tank and what they are keeping could potentially cost them $10k or more in LEDs. When that is eventually your only light option then what are you left with?

That isn't a mainstream tank. Right now, for deep tanks, MH is a good option but LED's are catching up.

The cost of replacing MH bulbs is real, and you have to do it every 8-12 months if you want to keep spectrum and intensity stable. If you have 10 fixtures that's rougnly 1000 bucks for every light change. At that rate, the price is almost the same whichever way you go - assuming you are using high bay fixtures for your MH.

The other cost is actually changing those bulbs that often, which regardless of what they said in the video is a PITA as you get into bigger systems. On the big reef at Steinhart, we have 86 1000 watt bulbs to change ever 8 months. I would have much rather had LEDS.