A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

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brandon429

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why did you put a reef in that
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I lost some sps before too, and my tank was ten years old at the time. considering the rest of the tank that lived plenty well is what a positive, helpful, sincere reefer present here would add.

The lysmata shrimp present in his early setup was confirmation for safety of the water at the start.

it was a link from someone trying a skip cycle, we reviewed it. that's the point about being on topic. I didn't care that he used bottle bac, he was trying to understand the process and we reviewed it and I thought he did a good job given the lack of training material on the matter.
 
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I lost some sps before too, and my tank was ten years old at the time. considering the rest of the tank that lived plenty well is what a positive, helpful, sincere reefer present here would add.
Me too, but your post implied everything was rosy from day one, it's not. He states he followed your recommendations, but tested for ammonia consumption. Was that your suggestion?

Edit - what other recommendations could there possibly be? I can only think "put water in tank, put rocks in water"
 
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brandon429

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why did you put a reef in that
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it's included here because it's a link review of someone's skip cycle attempt. that's the criteria I've asked for anyone posting here to use, and it's also no prob at all to analyze his thread since it's a valid example. You reviewed his thread and posted your take; that's fine by me for sure.

I didn't think the skipped sand rinse/early clouding looked awesome but I still included it because he was referencing a quick build vs waiting 30-60 days for one, a common wait cycle.

you pointed out the bad exclusively, and I pointed out the good, that's a fair deal in my opinion based on an example that fits the bill for this thread.
 

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it's included here because it's a link review of someone's skip cycle attempt. that's the criteria I've asked for anyone posting here to use, and it's also no prob at all to analyze his thread since it's a valid example. You reviewed his thread and posted your take; that's fine by me for sure.

I didn't think the skipped sand rinse/early clouding looked awesome but I still included it because he was referencing a quick build vs waiting 30-60 days for one, a common wait cycle.

you pointed out the bad exclusively, and I pointed out the good, that's a fair deal in my opinion based on an example that fits the bill for this thread.
Any chance of answering one of my questions? Just answer one and I'll leave this thread pronto. Did you encourage ammonia consumption testing at any stage?
 
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brandon429

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If I did it's a shock to me, I'll have to go re read. I don't advise anyone use ammonia testing in any type of reef tank cycle, live or dry, unless it's a seneye.

This thread we're in is supposed to be a testless cycling thread, written on page one

all my dry rock cycle threads are testless too, we use # of days running compared to the ammonia drop line on a common cycling chart to determine ready dates. I have no fails on file for ten years.

reasons why I don't advocate testing for ammonia in reef cycles: they'll get a false read and take steps to mitigate ammonia that aren't needed. I didn't mind if he put bottle bac in/ this is a no bottle bac thread/ he sent me his work example for a skip cycle attempt and I included it per the thread subject matter.
 

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If I did it's a shock to me, I'll have to go re read. I don't advise anyone use ammonia testing in any type of reef tank cycle, live or dry, unless it's a seneye.

This thread we're in is supposed to be a testless cycling thread, written on page one

all my dry rock cycle threads are testless too, we use # of days running compared to the ammonia drop line on a common cycling chart to determine ready dates. I have no fails on file for ten years.

reasons why I don't advocate testing for ammonia in reef cycles: they'll get a false read and take steps to mitigate ammonia that aren't needed. I didn't mind if he put bottle bac in/ this is a no bottle bac thread/ he sent me his work example for a skip cycle attempt and I included it per the thread subject matter.
Surprised you used that chaps tank as example number 1 given the title of this thread. He used Fritz Turbo start, dosed ammonia, Tested for consumption. I also don't see any shrimp in the start, perhaps I missed it.
 
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brandon429

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yep you did. that's what hunting for the negatives by habit will get ya.

perhaps it's not worthy of example number one heh but the guy sure did attempt a skip cycle several different ways. Maybe Mac will update later on that sure was a clean run.
 

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@MnFish1

I’ve asked you not to post here if you aren’t posting links of pertinent jobs but you still do.

Your last post is not on topic, the topic is simply links of skip cycle jobs we’ve worked. You asked why I’m updating, it’s because I want to, it’s not for you. When I get fifty pages of skip cycle jobs it’s my effort for patterning one type of cycle among the four types of reef cycles. I wasn’t looking to factor how many maximum pages of the jobs you wanted

For the four people who will not stop wrecking my threads with off topic arguments, who never ever meet the criteria I’ve asked for when posting here = a skip cycle success or failure link you’ve personally worked inside a reef tank, I say good morning :) I wonder what kind of misdirection for my thread you’ll bring today. How we use post freedom on a free site really reflects the type of person we are I can see.


You won’t seem me in your threads wrecking them though, when I disagree with someone’s science or ability to run outbound jobs and reflect on those, I just block em.
Actually, I posted that I have moved/transferred multiple tanks over decades - and never once did I 'cycle' the new tank per the usual cycling protocol. In fact, I have said on multiple occasions that I have done this - so I guess I feel it's Germaine to the conversation, right? My most recent question was really simple - IF multiple people have done this - including those you think are your 'detractors' my last post merely asked (paraphrased) - if everyone agrees with you what is the point? If tank transfers have been happening for decades - I was just wondering about the reason for the crusade?

Haven't you proved your point? Thats what I'm curious about. what is exactly the point for this skip cycle thing?
 
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no, it was in agreement you'd missed the shrimp, which is the top water quality indicator we keep in reefing. I didn't want you to think free ammonia was the killer of his sps, or anything else in the tank.

the shrimp thing is a pattern I noticed years ago while working cycle troubleshoots.


the way I discerned that pattern was by an inquisitive / naturally helpful nature wanting to define then refine some of the conflicts in today's cycle training. I didn't learn that by constantly going into someone's threads just to make arguments.

again, just now, there was a link related to something we're discussing. I get that it's a one-sided deal, always apparently, but it's to show I have no trouble maintaining my own criteria when I'm allowed to run a thread in peace.
 
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since you do the negative part of each analysis, that can be harnessed helpfully here / in response to the above link/ by you finding a cycle you were involved in where there was verified ammonia issues, but the lysmata survived. have u ever seen that combo play out before in a cycle?
 

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no, it was in agreement you'd missed the shrimp, which is the top water quality indicator we keep in reefing.

the shrimp thing is a pattern I noticed years ago while working cycle troubleshoots.
Since you seem to be at a loss at why people are commenting on in your thread - which you claim is just 'examples of skip cycles', I'm going to take a stab at it. 1. If this were just a list of links to skip cycle tanks, the reader could merely look at them and make a conclusion. However, this is different - this is one poster (yourself) who has decided that he alone has the ability to comment on the threads - and there are plenty of comments. IMHO, when those comments are wrong - like the one you wrote earlier (quoted above) - which rather than helping new reefers could potentially hurt their chances (there is no proof that lysmata shrimp are the top water quality indicator we keep in reefing. So, the pattern you noticed years ago - doesn't make scientific or common sense.

It's like someone coming on to the disease forum, and starting a thread - saying 'ok - everyone who has used kick ich pro, post your threads, and we'll use them to prove that kick ich pro works to kill ich'. No one else can comment because it's 'their thread'. Can you see where this type of 'm.o.' could be detrimental?
 

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These threads are me stating simple criteria for inclusion, working those, and dealing with thousands of words of side typing that aren't part of the criterion for being here.
In the process you say and submit as fact (and repeat regularly throughout this site) numerous things that many of us simply don’t agree with. That in and of itself is fine, we are all entitled to our opinions. The problem is your delivery and followup behavior. Almost every word of it is wrapped in verbal disdain and insult (both direct and veiled) aimed at the collective members, authors and published works of this hobby.

The reality is that you have repeatedly and relentlessly called out the entire established hobby and now appear to be upset that they are showing up armed with facts and data to answer you. You refuse to accept any of it because you don't respect anybody delivering it.

It's safe to say every critique possible on the matter has been leveled and responded to here
But you actually don't address the critiques and instead obfuscate by attacking the critics, their credibility for lack of "work" or you simply change the subject. What you absolutely never do is actually defend your position with verifiable fact, science or 3rd part corroborative data.

when I disagree with someone’s science or ability to run outbound jobs and reflect on those, I just block em...

....That’s a harmless goal of mine, let me attain it in peace.
People are here in this thread because you invited us here by using this as one of your references.

This community is not built around "work" or "jobs". It is built around exchange of information and the enjoyment of a common hobby.

If you honestly wanted peace you would not continually and relentlessly disparage others, especially those respected for their work in this hobby, "outbound work" or not.
 

MnFish1

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since you do the negative part of each analysis, that can be harnessed helpfully here / in response to the above link/ by you finding a cycle you were involved in where there was verified ammonia issues, but the lysmata survived. have u ever seen that combo play out before in a cycle?
Lets put it this way - say I have tank 1 - with a pH of 7.8, and an ammonia of 1 ppm (total) - which an appropriate salinity - this translates into a free ammonia of <0.03 - which is the general level that is toxic to these shrimp (from what I can see). Then you have tank 2 - with a pH of 8.2 an ammonia of 1 ppm (total) and the same salinity. The free ammonia is more than double. So - in one tank, we have a shrimp thats in a less than toxic free ammonia level - however very close to the borderline. yet - looking at the tank - the shrimp would 'look fine' - though probably under significant distress. In the second tank the shrimp would be dead or dying. yet - the total ammonia is measured at 1.0. Perhaps the issue is scrapping the total ammonia completely, and doing the calculation of free ammonia after each test using the total ammonia, temp, salinity and pH?
 

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Since you seem to be at a loss at why people are commenting on in your thread - which you claim is just 'examples of skip cycles', I'm going to take a stab at it. 1. If this were just a list of links to skip cycle tanks, the reader could merely look at them and make a conclusion. However, this is different - this is one poster (yourself) who has decided that he alone has the ability to comment on the threads - and there are plenty of comments. IMHO, when those comments are wrong - like the one you wrote earlier (quoted above) - which rather than helping new reefers could potentially hurt their chances (there is no proof that lysmata shrimp are the top water quality indicator we keep in reefing. So, the pattern you noticed years ago - doesn't make scientific or common sense.

It's like someone coming on to the disease forum, and starting a thread - saying 'ok - everyone who has used kick ich pro, post your threads, and we'll use them to prove that kick ich pro works to kill ich'. No one else can comment because it's 'their thread'. Can you see where this type of 'm.o.' could be detrimental?
Or - even better yet - its like someone saying - OK - everyone post work threads of how Prime detoxified their ammonia, and utilizing that method to 'prove' that prime detoxifies ammonia - despite research to the contrary.
 

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Hello Members,

This is an open forum and unless someone is breaking the TOS then they are allowed to comment. If someone is breaking the TOS then report them. If not, then don't. Everyone also has the option NOT to comment if you don't want to respond to a question or post.

Thank you.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Brandon,

I tried reading the first post of this thread (which is from a few years ago), and really could not understand what exactly you are suggesting folks do.

Can you post in a single post, without any references to work threads, what you suggest a new reefer do when cycling a new tank with dead rock or with live rock?

I think discussing a recommendation will help everyone understand the claims of everyone in this thread.
 
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Randy, what I'm doing is testless cycling using live rocks transferred from a pet store to someone's home. As far as I can tell, every single example thread here is that action. We're simply eliminating the testing/fear/flinch response that old cycling science has engrained into the masses (that if I don't test for ammonia, the bacteria on the live rocks might be dead, my reef might die)

by having as many examples on file, readers/skeptics/people who want our results can simply click on any entrant here and go see how their tank worked out. pretty simple.

I have never seen anyone in reefing for 24 years run testless cycling on all cycles they encounter, that's what I'm doing. Live rock and dry rock systems, testless, so that we can develop different ways of cycling that give confidence and predictable results to reefers, and, I want them focusing on disease preps far far above ammonia concerns.
 
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