A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

MnFish1

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I believe this is due to the great level of biodiversity that was present in the tank due to the live rock.
BTW - I think it's because - you have lots of coral covering most of the lit surfaces. So - you could be right - but the biodiversity is not bacterial - rather coral that is shading most of the tank from getting a Dino colony established - especially if you're going adequate maintenance (which by the pictures you are doing a great job)
 

Lasse

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@Lasse has probably forgotten more about nitrifying bacteria than I know, so I’ll let him chime in on how long it would take to get from early exponential phase (red) to transitional phase (green), but in my experience, it is probably less than a week.

The normal double time for NOB (Nitrite Oxidizing Bacteria) is normally calculated to be around 13 hours in lab (if you not adding any bacteria). If we start with one cell - Day 1 will end up with 2 cells, day2 with 8, day 3 with 32, Day 4 with 128, Day 5 with 512, Day 6 with 2048, day 7 with 8192 and so on

I would say that it takes around 2 weeks to pass the exponential phase at unlimited growth and look at the graph below - most growth is day 13 and 14. This graph can give us an idea about the often seen "switch effect" regarding the breakdown of nitrite to nitrate in an initial stage. From high to low can usually be seen in a single day. Almost as it was digital. The curve below shows that the effect is analogous but due to the exponential nature of the growth it looks like it is off/on. Everything happens on day 13 and 14

1711231833172.png


Sincerely Lasse
 

Gregg @ ADP

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The normal double time for NOB (Nitrite Oxidizing Bacteria) is normally calculated to be around 13 hours in lab (if you not adding any bacteria). If we start with one cell - Day 1 will end up with 2 cells, day2 with 8, day 3 with 32, Day 4 with 128, Day 5 with 512, Day 6 with 2048, day 7 with 8192 and so on

I would say that it takes around 2 weeks to pass the exponential phase at unlimited growth and look at the graph below - most growth is day 13 and 14. This graph can give us an idea about the often seen "switch effect" regarding the breakdown of nitrite to nitrate in an initial stage. From high to low can usually be seen in a single day. Almost as it was digital. The curve below shows that the effect is analogous but due to the exponential nature of the growth it looks like it is off/on. Everything happens on day 13 and 14

1711231833172.png


Sincerely Lasse
Thanks Lasse.

But wouldn’t you say that if you started out with, say, even 0.5kg of sand or rock from an established tank, that is the equivalent of starting at Day 11 or so on your graph?
 

Lasse

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The time scale in the graph is only valid if you start with very few NOB. If you add extra (bottle, sand, living rocks or whatever containing NOB) and balance population and load - you have it working in very few days. In my example - around 150,000,000 bacteria cells exist day 14 - let us say that is enough to reach your plateau - load and consumption equilibrium. If you add this population day 1 - you are already on the plateau.

Sincerely Lasse
 

MnFish1

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The time scale in the graph is only valid if you start with very few NOB. If you add extra (bottle, sand, living rocks or whatever containing NOB) and balance population and load - you have it working in very few days. In my example - around 150,000,000 bacteria cells exist day 14 - let us say that is enough to reach your plateau - load and consumption equilibrium. If you add this population day 1 - you are already on the plateau.

Sincerely Lasse
Which is why many companies claim to 'allow' fish and bacteria on day 1. Correct? Or in part correct?
 
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brandon429

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why did you put a reef in that
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adding to our collection of skip cycle reefs. well done micro pico setup there, we are collecting more of those lately with Ben's addition and now @VintageReefer excellent micro setup. these are the kinds of reefs I like to keep, glad to see new collection building here. Vintage didn't use live rock transfer, he skip cycled with sand transfer from an existing tank, that's a different approach but it still brings in bacteria for sure. coral loading and a few inverts isn't much loading, then again a one gallon reef will never carry much loading in it's entire life arc so what we start with doesn't matter all that much.
 

Lasse

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@MnFish1 - You have to balance input and consumption - either you will have a rising NH3 or NO2. The main factors is number of active nitrifiers to input of NH4/NH3. Low input fewer bacteria is needed and high input - more nitrifiers is needed, You can reach this equilibrium in many ways - adding a lot of bacteria in one or another way in the start allow faster rise of load and so on. However I would rise the input slowly even if I have a lot of nitrifiers. In theory - yes - in practical terms - rise the load slowly

Sincerely Lasse
 

VintageReefer

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adding to our collection of skip cycle reefs. well done micro pico setup there, we are collecting more of those lately with Ben's addition and now @VintageReefer excellent micro setup. these are the kinds of reefs I like to keep, glad to see new collection building here. Vintage didn't use live rock transfer, he skip cycled with sand transfer from an existing tank, that's a different approach but it still brings in bacteria for sure. coral loading and a few inverts isn't much loading, then again a one gallon reef will never carry much loading in it's entire life arc so what we start with doesn't matter all that much.

Thanks for mentioning my tank! One small correction, I did partial live rock transfer (tonga branch from my sump) + one piece of dry carribsea base rock. The tonga branch is about 3/4 lb and the base rock is approx 1.5 lb

I didn’t use any bottle bacteria, I never did any tests, I used experience and planned this to be a cycle less <24 hour setup, watched for visual clues to see if any issues developed, which did not happen. A small dusting of rust on the base rock is expected and at that point I knew things were moving along fine and I added 2-3 small astrea snails to keep things managed.
 
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brandon429

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why did you put a reef in that
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I like how quickly you've stocked it up with happy/extended corals it's looking great, can u imagine how strong it'll be by June
 

VintageReefer

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I like how quickly you've stocked it up with happy/extended corals it's looking great, can u imagine how strong it'll be by June

Thanks! I’m stopping here and letting it fill in on it’s own. It’s a good start. Don’t want to overfill and then get crowding issues down the line

Here’s this morning with the micro reef, everything just starting to open up shortly after lights came on
 

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brandon429

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why did you put a reef in that
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I'm so glad you did a rock transfer step as well I'd misread, that's solid for our repeating pattern collection.

the system is inherently stable that's about like mine/running since 06 as a skip cycle xfer. maritza the vase reef on youtube has theirs going 10 yrs now. you can see that salinity control isn't that big of a deal, once the tune is found then they just run and run I bet you will keep it years. so portable, quick water changes to fix things. any type of rock invasion is quickly chipped and rinsed off outside the tank then set back in

weathers power outages 36 hours easy on a jackery 500 watt battery backup for sure.
 

VintageReefer

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weathers power outages 36 hours easy on a jackery 500 watt battery backup for sure.

You figured out my secret I revealed today


I get approx 60 hours run time on battery in a power outage
 
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