A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

[brandon429]

thats possible, but it also enters into the equation placement of the media, as live rocks are in 3d placement in the display, right where wastes generate. if you sequester biomedia in a sump, dwell time increases, efficiency of filtration goes down. it can still work with good flowpath design. even biobicks in a bare bottom tank aren't that efficient, water doesn't prefer to flow through them it deflects around.

we don't skip cycle these designs unless the prep for the materials was exceptional and vastly overdone, with good placement. I would test verify this design before fish.

 

[MnFish1]

They're equal cycling options
Same ends
Same ability to pass load testing.

*neither* matter in regards to fish disease expression. Waiting for 60 days cycling just to be sure isn't safer than a skip cycle at all. Disease rules the fish loss game, not cycle overloads

Agreed, common starting bioloads are no real challenge.

There was a time where skip cycling was known by the 1%

And, watch for coming cycling threads I'll link, rarely will anyone even today simply state with confidence when fish can be added
You'll see degrees of hesitation in nearly any post, though the confident umpires are growing.

This thread is merely just one way people skip the common 30 days wait for cycling, as we can see in so many api stalled cycle threads. Speeding up cycles with bottle bac and live rock is common nowadays, but watch for the cycle examples coming.

Few people agree on status, though here we're all certain to be able to identify skip cycle live rock setups in the future. Surely we'll be more aligned in the troubleshoot threads based on the obvious science given here by everyone.

it is funny I have read hundreds of posts - and in all honesty, I still dont understand what a 'skip-cycle' is. I think I do - but then I read a post like the one above - and I'm lost again.

 

[BeanAnimal]

In a mature aquarium - sand and stones are mostly occupied by heterotrophic bacteria - aerobic at the surface and anaerobic in the deeper layer of sand, deeper pockets of rock and if the rock´s biofilm is thick enough - the deeper part of it. If autotrophic nitrification bacteria is present - they are in the upper layer of a thin biofilm.


The heterotrophic bacteria is mostly "break down" bacteria -

Perfect timing — @Garf and I had a brief discussion about this very subject last evening as well and your detailed analysis aligns with what he started to propose as well.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Here is what I called my instareef. If anyone goes through the videos of the build, I consolidated 2 tanks. 1) >5 years old and 1 that was 12 months old and had wet gulf rock used to start the system. I consolidated these into my new much larger system. I added 150 pounds of @LiverockRocks from Tampa Bay Saltwater and also between 150-200 pounds of their sand. I turned the filtration on a week or so before Thanksgiving. This is a similar result to the tank I did previously.

I put a 8 pounds dry Marco rock in the tank. 3 weeks later you cannot tell this one from the others. I built another Little Rock island last night out of dry Marco. I’m going to document its progress in the tank for the first 30 days. I was shocked at how fast that rock morphed. I’d never do this any other way.

Knock on wood the only algae I am battling is wicked glass film every 2-3 days. I only use my UV for either an issue or fish introduction measures, never just to “run it”.

 

[BeanAnimal]

They're equal cycling options
Same ends
Same ability to pass load testing.

Lasse’s points have nothing to do with passing load testing, whatever that actually means. Your rule is that ammonia can’t be present at all, and if it is, then the test is in error.

*neither* matter in regards to fish disease expression. Waiting for 60 days cycling just to be sure isn't safer than a skip cycle at all. Disease rules the fish loss game, not cycle overloads

This has nothing to do with disease and bringing it up is obfuscating the discussion of actual science that is the topic at hand.

. if you sequester biomedia in a sump, dwell time increases, efficiency of filtration goes down.

By what measure?

You'll see degrees of hesitation in nearly any post, though the confident umpires are growing.

Less then 12 hours since you indicated that you understood and wanted a fresh start and you are already back to referring to your peers with diminutive names in an effort disparage their position. When is this behavior going to stop, Brandon?

 

[brandon429]

What could go wrong

Thank you for posting that wonderful reef, that helps keep us on track

You wrote in an uplifting way, not a stressful way, thank you/ owe you one for trying to steer back to live examples, that's what I've been asking for, thank you.
B

 

[brandon429]

@WhatCouldGoWrong71

also: that uncured rock skip cycle is interesting.

we assume there's dieoff but actually shipping stresses vary: its not a stretch to envision no dieoff happening immediately, to stress the system. in addition, you've got plants and the best bacterial complement to help uptake, if there is some sponge or tunicates degrading. heck of a tank, wow

 

[GARRIGA]

thats possible, but it also enters into the equation placement of the media, as live rocks are in 3d placement in the display, right where wastes generate. if you sequester biomedia in a sump, dwell time increases, efficiency of filtration goes down. it can still work with good flowpath design. even biobicks in a bare bottom tank aren't that efficient, water doesn't prefer to flow through them it deflects around.

we don't skip cycle these designs unless the prep for the materials was exceptional and vastly overdone, with good placement. I would test verify this design before fish.

But were that flow through a more efficient device such as a canister where there's minimal to zero bypass then that media would possibly replace live rock in the display and especially today's base rock converted offshore to live rock lacking the porosity of 80s ocean source old coral formations. My thinking and planning.

 

[brandon429]

I'd like to post a friendly update to the skip cycle instant build thread. My 1 gallon vase hits 20 yrs. soon

I estimate it has produced thirty exported wet pounds of various coral over the years.

nobody wants unmounted red montipora most of it goes in the trash for example, but that still counts as true reef production vs stagnancy

A producer vs consumer reef tank was the goal, no degradation of cycle whatsoever was the outcome it appears.

This is just a friendly update to the skip cycle build thread, for long term tracking of a day- one full reef build in December of 06.




Friends have been testing and giving feedback with pictures on tank transfers, rescues, upgrades, algae handling across our work threads (work threads are assemblies of other people's tanks being worked in a given test manner/ proves repeatability is the point)


If the whole thread was written solely about my tank that's not nearly as good of an audit as having twenty other full size reefs do skip cycle builds then post mine on yr 5 / not being too space greedy.




I take all the feedback from other people's tank outcomes in our work threads and apply it to my tank so it will live longer, I'll update next time in a few years.

Before home move last month

Culled down to during rip clean home move in a bucket

Buzz haircut

- reasons for drastic mass cut in the nano system: Restores surface flow management efficiency for corals, like forestry management, like reef dentistry for a healthy mouth and teeth=reduces coral disease. Huge colonies in tight quarters catch and hold pocketing that fosters pathogen/rtn areas, this culling is crucial for longevity until we get an older test culling none. This is cull #5.


Here's a culling from 2012 ish

Cut to:

(gave the red war coral vital space to win back up to today, it took the whole rock many times over)


It grows back over and over, slowly, guided by the things we do in work threads for other people's reefs. That outbound testing keeps the most updated science going into my bowl, for longevity/ adaptation.

When I read of the hobby starting to dose Cipro to handle STN/RTN in aged captive montipora colonies, my plan was opposite: never dose that filthy cheat + control stn/rtn via mass culling and rip cleaning (bacterial export vs addition)

This system will not crash from disease or senescence is the ongoing bet/ goal.

This system is advanced testing for bacterial impacts in old reef tanks because it has virtually no dilution, with high ratio of corals per unit of measure + nutrients and light. That's a very busy system at one gallon, to maintain bacterial balance never needing an aquabiomics test to prevent 'drift' also matters in my opinion. My bacteria are treated harshly vs dosed for more

The outcome is extreme longevity = worth a friendly update I thought.

B


From today