A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

[brandon429]

looking very sharp!

 

[Poof No Eyebrows]

Skip cycle Fiji Cube nano
Filled with live sand (20 lbs roughly) and 16 lbs live rock yesterday. Total water volume 15 gallons.
Today added Fiji Damsle and Pacific cleaner shrimp. Breathing and activity normal. Both ate frozen mysis. Only testing done was salinity.

 

[brandon429]

hey can you post your ammonia reading it should be just perfectly in spec, that's a perfect setup for sure

 

[Poof No Eyebrows]

Lol I haven't tested for the big three in almost two years. I'll see if my neighbor has a test when he gets home from work.

 

[brandon429]

hey u know what

I thought this was the seneye thread lol I asked for ammonia testing on a thread where the bane of progress is ammonia testing admit that's funny


Fish + Insta rock + clean water + feeding handled = welcome!!

 

[MnFish1]

hey u know what

I thought this was the seneye thread lol I asked for ammonia testing on a thread where the bane of progress is ammonia testing admit that's funny


Fish + Insta rock + clean water + feeding handled = welcome!!

I am not sure what this is supposed to prove. If I put Live sand, a damsel and shrimp into a 1 quart tank, my guess is that there would be problems within a couple days. If I put the same into 5000 gallons of water - there would be no problems. Somewhere in-between there is not enough ammonia produced to cause problems - but it all depends on bioload IMHO

 

[brandon429]

Our focus is purely on the rock for these reasons:

not any place in written literature discusses skip cycling other than blog posts, nothing formal. For example cycle gurus and bottle bac sellers have not formally come out and plainly said: there are some reefs you NEVER need to use bottle bac. We said that and will show decades of examples


There’s always risk posted in today's cycle assessments, how testing will be required to know a plain start date. We’d have to test total ammonia to know, or we’d have to see the live rock move exactly two ppm to zero to be sure. A doubt 100% accompanies every assessment.

we need a running counter at all times to even out the sales machine that has been ingrained in all of us

Our job here is to separate the massive sales machine of bottle bac from instances we will never ever need any, to cycle a new system.


another use is teaching pure resolve to cyclers as this entire thread is free of hesitation, there isn’t a cycling guide in the universe that doesn’t have a wait factor, we do not have one. All cycling materials imply a consequence for non conformity and we show that to be false, and the result of training doubt into all cycles is the inevitable click, buy, feel better but the outcomes were the same anyway.

we want to show how a person can clean their reef or move it to conventions without any issues, and we wanted to show how for about thirty years the buying public has been given totally untrue rules for cycling compared to sellers of cycle fix products.

using our visual verification approach (find a feather duster worm attached, some algae, maybe some real coralline that’s whorled and you can plainly see it’s not painted, maybe see a sponge or a living vermitid spike) any rock buyer wont get duped into paying for bacteria twice...once on the rock and then once as a $14 purchase of cycling bacteria.

The only way to make any proof in reefing using anecdotes is to pattern them out so far, so beyond past doubt, that even eternal skeptics like aquabiomics can be won over. Careful reading shows a link (post #2) where Eli ribs me pretty well in 2017 regarding the inability to visually cycle live rock (without testing) and so begins a journey where ten thousand visually verified cycles will be linked. motivisation


there are cycles that require absolutely no testing because there isn’t anything to doubt, we already know the pertinent levels when rocks have living attachments on them.

why that statement isn’t written into formal training is beyond me, we are proving it right here in every page. Poof no eyebrows has it exactly right, he knew the origin of that rock and could trust that his new reef would indeed make the show start time. Nice n simple his cycle was done

 

[Poof No Eyebrows]

For the sake of completeness.
Testing yesterday (took water to a lfs) showed ammonia at .1 and zeroes across everything else. This morning I tested ammonia (fluval) and the solution barely even colored. I also did a heavy feeding of frozen mysis last night before lights out.

 

[brandon429]

Excellent. After tan conversion it's .01 so that's awesome confirm

 

[MnFish1]

Our focus is purely on the rock for these reasons:

not any place in written literature discusses skip cycling other than blog posts, nothing formal. For example cycle gurus and bottle bac sellers have not formally come out and plainly said: there are some reefs you NEVER need to use bottle bac. We said that and will show decades of examples


There’s always risk posted in today's cycle assessments, how testing will be required to know a plain start date. We’d have to test total ammonia to know, or we’d have to see the live rock move exactly two ppm to zero to be sure. A doubt 100% accompanies every assessment.

we need a running counter at all times to even out the sales machine that has been ingrained in all of us

Our job here is to separate the massive sales machine of bottle bac from instances we will never ever need any, to cycle a new system.


another use is teaching pure resolve to cyclers as this entire thread is free of hesitation, there isn’t a cycling guide in the universe that doesn’t have a wait factor, we do not have one. All cycling materials imply a consequence for non conformity and we show that to be false, and the result of training doubt into all cycles is the inevitable click, buy, feel better but the outcomes were the same anyway.

we want to show how a person can clean their reef or move it to conventions without any issues, and we wanted to show how for about thirty years the buying public has been given totally untrue rules for cycling compared to sellers of cycle fix products.

using our visual verification approach (find a feather duster worm attached, some algae, maybe some real coralline that’s whorled and you can plainly see it’s not painted, maybe see a sponge or a living vermitid spike) any rock buyer wont get duped into paying for bacteria twice...once on the rock and then once as a $14 purchase of cycling bacteria.

The only way to make any proof in reefing using anecdotes is to pattern them out so far, so beyond past doubt, that even eternal skeptics like aquabiomics can be won over. Careful reading shows a link (post #2) where Eli ribs me pretty well in 2017 regarding the inability to visually cycle live rock (without testing) and so begins a journey where ten thousand visually verified cycles will be linked. motivisation


there are cycles that require absolutely no testing because there isn’t anything to doubt, we already know the pertinent levels when rocks have living attachments on them.

why that statement isn’t written into formal training is beyond me, we are proving it right here in every page. Poof no eyebrows has it exactly right, he knew the origin of that rock and could trust that his new reef would indeed make the show start time. Nice n simple his cycle was done

Yes - I guess I'm surprised that anyone would think that if they take rock from an established aquarium and move it to another tank (within a reasonable period of time) that they would need to re-cycle. To me thats common sense?

 

[ahsokat501]

Hi All, new here but just wanted to let you know that I was gifted a 90 gallon aquarium for my birthday and hadn't been involved in keeping one in years. Went to the store and they tried to sell me everything on the shelf as well as telling me "don't believe anything you read on the web." Was quickly turned off because of a couple of different comments and "suggestions" and came here to try to get a different perspective. Read and learned from all of your experiences listed here and decided to follow your "get good rocks and trust the science behind it" flow. Long story short:

Day 1 (May 19th): 40 pounds CaribSea live rock and 20 lbs of live sand plus Instant Ocean Salt for 90 gallons

Day 2: Hydrometer reading of 1.022, temp at 79 and added Damsels

Day 3: Realized LFS was trying to operate the way the forum warns us about and went to another LFS and purchased 35 lbs cured live wet rock as well as three coral additions, two clown fish and a juvenile target mandarin Goby. Re-homed damsels and lost the money as I realized a) I didn't need them and b) wasn't cool with watching them go "Hunger Games" on each other. Coral opened within 30 minutes of being in the tank and clown were eating that night, swimming and playing in the output flow from the filter (you all are right in that they are a tad crazy but charming).

Day 5: All was well but did not want to rely solely on the frozen food source for the goby and I want a holistic aquarium set up (see Day 7-10). Added one 8oz container of Tisbe pods and one 8oz container of Apocyclops pods as well as two more coral additions, a full grown mandarin, cleaner shrimp (1), emerald crabs (3), assorted snails (15). I did get a slight bit nervous here and decided to add the TS 900 but I can tell you right now the tank didn't need it definitely was a hedge bet on my part.

Day 6: All coral are open and feeding, Mandarins have each established a spot on opposite sides of the tank and are actively hunting copepods on the rocks, cleaner shrimp has been busy since the beginning, crabs and snails feeding and moving well, clown fish are eating, curious and continuing to play in filter outflow.

Day 7-10: setting up a refugium to supply copepods and add some extra goodness to the overall ecosystem

I have yet to do a single test other than salinity. Using visual cues from the coral, inverts, and fish behavior to determine health and wellness of the ecosystem, sufficient light access/color and assuming chemical and organic parameters match. This is the smaller target mandarin hunting five minutes ago.

Tank: 90 gallon, 2 ViparSpectra 300W lights, AquaTop CF500UV canister filter, 500W Aquatop thermometer with hard cover.

 

[brandon429]

thats such a great contribution to this work, its so precise in setup and outcome and the clarity of the post helps others replicate the assembly thank you so much for posting!

 

[TheDragonsReef]

As long as the tank has a way to process ammonia and nitrites theres no reason to wait to add fish or inverts. Cured rock has all the bacteria youd need. Ive added cured live rock to a system and a fish or 2 the same day without issues.

 

[brandon429]

I truly want to know why no cycling log in the history of reefing ever said it that concise.

why is skip cycling not mentioned in any article about cycling


why is it not in books as a core tenet


100% of them advise opposite.

its test, dose, wait, hope, believe whatever api tells you no matter what...


I think they're training us to be buyers, consumers, needy folk is why. only sellers get the information we're trading here. Buyers do the buying and redundant safety purchases just in case totally wet surfaces moved among tanks lost their bac just in case.

it's illegal to use bottle bac in this thread. if someone does, a member of the tang police working weekend cycling guard duty will come and cite you.

 

[Yevoc]

This is a weird hill to die on and it will be covered in dead fish.

 

[brandon429]

agreed we want to study exactly that.

if our science is good, you can run complete reef conventions off it with no losses


and if testless, visual benthic clue based skip cycling is bad science, anyone making a thread on it will certainly have losses by page 5 or 10 at least. we will soon see, patterns tell the truth. (reef conventions wont be able to start on time; you can't time 400 cycles to complete all by Friday using old rules of test and wait for api allowance)

no outliers in 4 pages is decent, its akin to at least blindfolded darting and hitting inbounds.

the specific science we use, study and convey here is complete reef control with zero hesitation. complete prediction and follow through in every outcome, reliable patterns.

so we can move tanks to new homes


or make an upgrade in home and not kill everything...this method is used and reported on daily for thousands of reefs.



how big is this skip cycle thread, for example:

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

see how at fifty pages it means we're dealing in good science v bad science

the reason someone would study the method of skip cycling would be to save more corals and fish from happenstance hesitation-caused losses.

Disease kills just about all our marine fish in this hobby, that's a fact from the disease forum and its daily work rate. Cycling isn't killing them, even dry start fish + bottle bac and no wait isn't killing or hurting fish, we've had this tested and logged on seneye units from more than one person to show bottle bac does what the label says.

delayed onset disease after cycle control is 100% the issue for the hobby. we've been skip cycling for twenty + years now, this level of disease is the new part.

Transferring to a new tank

Hello everyone, I am getting a new tank soon to replace the one I am currently using. I am trading my 55 tall for a 55 short, so I will not be able to cycle a brand new tank in preparation to receive my livestock. Can anyone offer any advice on how I can accomplish this move and keep all of...

www.reef2reef.com

we advised how to skip cycle to a new tank there live time, lets track outcomes if he uses our system. he may choose one of the other options too.

 

[MnFish1]

I truly want to know why no cycling log in the history of reefing ever said it that concise.

why is skip cycling not mentioned in any article about cycling


why is it not in books as a core tenet


100% of them advise opposite.

its test, dose, wait, hope, believe whatever api tells you no matter what...


I think they're training us to be buyers, consumers, needy folk is why. only sellers get the information we're trading here. Buyers do the buying and redundant safety purchases just in case totally wet surfaces moved among tanks lost their bac just in case.

it's illegal to use bottle bac in this thread. if someone does, a member of the tang police working weekend cycling guard duty will come and cite you.

Brandon. The bioload in this tank is so small, there is no need to add 'extra bacteria'. Second, I'm not sure why you think this is such a miracle. Buying 'live sand' is probably more expensive than buying 'dead sand' and adding bacteria. Either way - the 'aquarium industry' is getting people to spend money. Let me know when someone adds a full cadre of fish to a 90 gallon tank - in a 'skip cycle' (as compared to 3-4 small fish).

BTW - I completely agree that many of the 'cycling' methods focus on 'adding stuff'. But IMHO adding 'live rock' and 'live sand' is as expensive or more than adding bacteria and 'dead rock'.

What I think is the MOST interesting thing here is the OP is 'breaking the rules' more by adding a Mandarin (to a tank that isn't 20 years old), as well as corals quickly. It will be very interesting to see how the fish and corals do (to me). I have long said the idea that to keep coral you need a several months old tank is probably false.

 

[brandon429]

Suddenly add 20 fish to Established tank

Hi Reefers I need some advice from experts here. So my 65 gallon tank is about 2 years old and was housing 4 fish and around 20+ anemone. Recently I converted into a clownfish harem by adding 20 clownfish all at one time. Suppose 20 is a good number for them not to fight. Right now...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Yevoc]

Brandon. The bioload in this tank is so small, there is no need to add 'extra bacteria'. Second, I'm not sure why you think this is such a miracle. Buying 'live sand' is probably more expensive than buying 'dead sand' and adding bacteria. Either way - the 'aquarium industry' is getting people to spend money. Let me know when someone adds a full cadre of fish to a 90 gallon tank - in a 'skip cycle' (as compared to 3-4 small fish).

BTW - I completely agree that many of the 'cycling' methods focus on 'adding stuff'. But IMHO adding 'live rock' and 'live sand' is as expensive or more than adding bacteria and 'dead rock'.

What I think is the MOST interesting thing here is the OP is 'breaking the rules' more by adding a Mandarin (to a tank that isn't 20 years old), as well as corals quickly. It will be very interesting to see how the fish and corals do (to me). I have long said the idea that to keep coral you need a several months old tank is probably false.

I think this is the weirdest bit to me personally. The premise of this entire thread is we have all been brainwashed by "Big Bac" into buying bacteria in a bottle when the bac in a bottle is multiple times cheaper than filling the tank with live (and I mean like airshipped) rock.

The "take it slow method" is out of an abundance of caution out of respect to the livestock to avoiding needless suffering and death. For every exception to the rule where it just works out there are hundreds, literally hundreds of threads on this forum of the cycle going sideways and killing livestock.

If the examples such as "trade show tank look amazing and they were only just set up." can still have holes poked in it. Little something like this:

-Stable tank is grow out for show.
-Tank is packed. Coral and fish well cared for ie heated and aerated coolers.
-Shipped in person under care of same skilled reefkeepers.
-Set up at show. Large water change basically required due to moving everything.
-48ish hours at show. Basic math here. Even bio filter is horrible damaged it is not likely to be able to foul the water in 2 days.
-Tear down, same attention to the needs of the animals.
-Reset up at home. Large water change basically required due to moving everything.
-Mature filter and most of the equipment brought back online and you are still likely going to get small cycle.

The tank at the trade show basically coasted on the original stability of the system and the massive water changes back to back to manage.

This theory is just bad science cherry picking examples to curve fit.

 

[brandon429]

Find me one stalled cycle where live stock was killed and post it. lets see how recent, or if exists. lets see a failed start cycle.

in order for anything you've typed to line up, we have to start w that direct link placed here so we can click and read that event.

if you are reading example links I'm posting and editing into this thread, you'll see many of them reflect how this community tells folks to cycle more, when they're already done, and how we sell bottle bac to our peers in droves. we as peers need the new training you seem to have it down pat already. thats good, fewer of your fish and corals will die if you reef intently as we do here.

we have no trouble picking and linking skip cycle examples among the myriad posts for cycles that exist online, I can't wait to see your example as you only have a single one to link, that's easy compared to our pages.