A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

[jason2459]

It's not skipping anything. It just happens to be a smaller glass box around everything that was already there that fits in the smaller glass box.

Just did the same thing recently going from a 180 to a 120. Which has lineage from a 55g started in 2009 that upgraded to that 180.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/jasons-tank-journey.1007525/

 

[Mikeltee]

Here we go... 40g Breeder with Fluval FX4 and Aquamaxx Bullet 3. I have fresh Matrix in the canister, a 50# liverock structure that I built from dry, Marco rock, and a 4# live rock from the LFS. This piece was perfect! No holes for pests to hide, several healthy sponges and lots of algae. I have a mushroom and an acan in it now. They seem happy. We shall see if the rock leaches Phosphates but the LR measured .15phos and 1.8nit. I have 2 Clowns and a Mandarin 10 days til out of QT.

 

[ConchLife]

Interesting, I've been holding consistently at between 2-5 Nitrates (testing with Salifert) with my two clowns as well. I've been feeding 2-3 times a day, mostly with frozen brine (they're picky!).

I was surprised that the nitrates have stayed fairly low, but just assumed that's how it is with well-established rock. Will be interesting to see how your tank progresses as well with nutrients.

Have you got a full tank photo to share? Very curious about your setup!

Attached a pic for you :)

 

[brandon429]

that looks serene and ideal wow

 

[Macbalacano]

Just wanted to provide an update. Tank has been running now for over a month, about 5 weeks using this skip cycle method. Here is a summary of my learnings and the pros and cons to this method:

TLDR: Clearly this method works. You can have fish, coral and inverts almost immediately. Out of 40 new corals placed in this skip-cycled tank, I had 0 losses. 2 fish were added and both are very happy and healthy. 2 shrimps were added and both died after 1 week. This is likely due to predatory worms (hitchhikers from live rock) that I have in the tank. Quarantine is very important as per my note below.

Pros:
- Can place livestock in tank almost immediately
- More likely to have a minimal 'uglies' stage or not have one at all
- More biodiversity instantly in the tank which comes with many benefits

Cons:
- Live rock is more expensive than dry rock
- Potential for bad hitchhikers in live rock

What I would do differently next time (related to this method):

- Quarantine live rock for a few weeks in an observable aquarium. I would especially be on the watch-out for bad types of worms like polyclad worms and fireworms. Some hitchhikers feed on inverts and corals. Set up traps and get as many of these bad hitchhikers out before adding any livestock.

- Quarantine any new livestock and dip new corals as well before adding to the display

Latest tank shots

 

[brandon429]

That's just amazing updates and summary and detail and pics

And artistry of guidance for that $$ on the line, that's a flagship post for us, completely enriching no joke. It's a detailed skip cycle + finality feedback all in one thank you so much!

 

[Mikeltee]

Update to my 10:1 experience. My dry rock sucked all of the nutrients out of the water column. Within 2 days, I had splotches of purple on the dry rock and then bubbles started to appear on the seed. I doused it with peroxide and hooked up a 40 watt UV to my 40g tank. The bubbles have been gone for a few days and the purple is fading. My nutrients have been steady at .05/5. All of the algae on the seed is dead. I recommend that everyone does this when they bring LR home from a LFS. Think about it... people probably gave up their tank because they couldnt handle the battle. This will kill everything but sponge and coralline. I think that the UV is playing a bigger role. While I do have a microscope, I didn't verify as there wasn't enough algae to take a sample. I acted quick. I'm not trying to go down the dino route again. I've been ghost feeding to get the nutrients up. 2 Clowns and a Mandarin come out of QT on Tuesday. I've already seeded with pods and dose 50ml phyto daily. I have 4 more strains of pods to add once the mandarin goes in. That will help with the algae for sure.

When should I try some SPS? My corals have been fine at 200 par. Once I get some sticks, I'll place the Softies to the side and crank it to 500 par. I'm using a Hydra 52 at about 20%:

 

[brandon429]

We haven’t used dry rocks not once in the thread though, not sure what u are meaning

this thread has been about taking cycled rocks from one tank, and setting them in another tank and calling it done instantly without testing or bottle bacteria

we haven’t used any dry rocks or new cycles? If you blended a dry + live rock new tank setup then that was still a skip cycle, use of sps will be best once the invasion is under control for several weeks in my opinion. Don’t be battling new tank uglies using dry rocks + sps, wait for the dry stuff to cure a while

 

[Mikeltee]

We haven’t used dry rocks not once in the thread though, not sure what u are meaning

this thread has been about taking cycled rocks from one tank, and setting them in another tank and calling it done instantly without testing or bottle bacteria

we haven’t used any dry rocks or new cycles? If you blended a dry + live rock new tank setup then that was still a skip cycle, use of sps will be best once the invasion is under control for several weeks in my opinion. Don’t be battling new tank uglies using dry rocks + sps, wait for the dry stuff to cure a while

Most people that I see use a 50/50 dry to live ratio. My goal was to see how far this ratio could be pushed else I would have used rock that has been in my Brute for 3 months.

 

[Mikeltee]

Softies have been happy for a week

I get a half dozen more on the 12th.

 

[brandon429]

ok I see that's a good reminder. it's a testament that even a little live rock carry-over will run a skip cycle. I see not many / any fish but even if there were some they'd skip cycle since the rock is in the display, immediate to the waste production area. nice one.

 

[NYCMAN]

This is an excellent thread. Among the best I have ever read. After decades of starting and running large reef tanks with 100% LFS or Florida live rock, I have never had a real cycle, one where I observed Ammonia or Nitrate, and always felt that it was luck, or some other circumstance (i.e. not normal). But now here we have affirmation that a near instant cycle is very real with mature live rock. After a two year absence, I am starting a new tank, but this time with synthetic dry rock b/c I like the look (arches, color, etc.). But I also know that a dry rock cycle is highly undesirable, so am going to seed it with real rock from Florida or local. Seems if it is only about the bacteria, it makes no difference. The question is how much supplemental live rock. I am betting on 20 to 25%, placing it in my display, and moving it slowly to the sump such that my desired dry rock aquascape in the display tank is achieved longer term. I do plan on supplementing with liquid bacteria throughout the initial weeks. I will report back on progress.

 

[brandon429]

We don't use bottle bac here though, it's a non bottle bac thread so we exist differently than all the rest thank you for posting

We're no testing, no bottle bac, no uncured ocean rock + predictive start date skip cycling only (as opposite to open ended wait cycling we've all been taught)

If we begin using testing and bottle bac we can't be different than the other threads on cycling

Your upcoming cycle is like Mikeltees above, a blend. All that's needed is mix in the rocks and you can begin stocking since a few pounds of live rock that's cured from another reef tank can carry any starting bioload in reefing. After two weeks wait, the dry rocks are cycled by contact time and no testing is needed= they can't fail to be cycled.

 

[NYCMAN]

We don't use bottle bac here though, it's a non bottle bac thread so we exist differently than all the rest thank you for posting

We're no testing, no bottle bac, no uncured ocean rock + predictive start date skip cycling only (as opposite to open ended wait cycling we've all been taught)

If we begin using testing and bottle bac we can't be different than the other threads on cycling

Your upcoming cycle is like Mikeltees above, a blend. All that's needed is mix in the rocks and you can begin stocking since a few pounds of live rock that's cured from another reef tank can carry any starting bioload in reefing. After two weeks wait, the dry rocks are cycled by contact time and no testing is needed= they can't fail to be cycled.

Great. I will rid the bac and do without it. Now here is the other question. I ordered 30lbs of KP rock coming next week, airfreight same day shipped in water. Can I put it all in my sump (I have no socks, no skimmer, nothing other than a sump with a return pump at this early stage, or do I need to place some of the KP rock in the display which is currently exclusively Caribsea Life rock (dry). I have read conflicting accounts of display versus sump placement for the rock that is cycled and teaming with bacteria. But it seems to me it is all one water column with a high frequency of exchange between them (~10x per hour).

 

[brandon429]

That is opposite of the type of rock we use, that's uncured ocean rock.

Still a very good purchase nonetheless but it may or may not be skip cycle live rock based on the attachments it has that are selected for oceanic growth vs reef tanks

The way you handle it is to cure it out for around ten days or so in another container, making sure it's not got big dieoff and the cheap meter you can use is a seachem alert badge to see if the ammonia is generally safe after ten days curing wait time.

That's not a skip cycle setup you have though you'll need to wait until curing is done. Agreed bottle bac isn't needed since ocean rock has the best diversity of bacteria we can get

 

[brandon429]

The reason you should cure them in a trash can is so you can routinely change the water while they cure out

If they're in your tank the water change volume is higher

 

[NYCMAN]

That is opposite of the type of rock we use, that's uncured ocean rock.

Still a very good purchase nonetheless but it may or may not be skip cycle live rock based on the attachments it has that are selected for oceanic growth vs reef tanks

The way you handle it is to cure it out for around ten days or so in another container, making sure it's not got big dieoff and the cheap meter you can use is a seachem alert badge to see if the ammonia is generally safe after ten days curing wait time.

That's not a skip cycle setup you have though you'll need to wait until curing is done. Agreed bottle bac isn't needed since ocean rock has the best diversity of bacteria we can get

For sure I can put it in a rubbermaid container for a couple of weeks with a powerhead. Although this is not premium rock, it is base rock with very little life other than the bacteria. I have done two successful skip cycles with premium rock with lots of macro algea, sponges, etc on it so was figuring this would be even more easy/successful in terms of an immediate cycle.

 

[Mikeltee]

ok I see that's a good reminder. it's a testament that even a little live rock carry-over will run a skip cycle. I see not many / any fish but even if there were some they'd skip cycle since the rock is in the display, immediate to the waste production area. nice one.

There were no fish in there for a week as they were in QT. I was still ghost feeding though. I now have two Clowns and a Mandarin in there with a ton of pods. This was not your average "I have a 10g nano and my 130g arrives next week. Can I use dry rock with my 10# of live rock" question.

I have pondered the bottle bacteria question. If you are using a piece of live rock, you don't want bottled bacteria. You want all that dry rock to be inhabited by what's on the live rock and not what's in the bottle bacteria. Surely it's going to take longer to inhabit the dry rock using this method, but IMO, it makes sense to wait it out.

I've noticed that the ugly stage came about on day 2 of this skip cycle tank. My main display is 100% bottled bacteria fed dry rock that spent a month in a Brute. I had the lights on for a month after placing it in the display before I had any signs of algae at all. This is going to be a good test at which tank matures faster. The main had an 8 week head start, but they both started the ugly stage at the same time.

 

[brandon429]

You know what this thread needs: a trade show interviewer who discusses aspects of skip cycling with the reef tank demo owners at the convention.

I see you have a sixty thousand dollar anemone for sale, and several hundred dollars in anthias alone swimming here...how do you prepare that tank for readiness by the convention start date and ensure carriage of that much anemone and fish $? would be the most relevant line of questioning for our thread.

next time someone is at a reef convention, please interview a few business owners who skip cycled into town and post a vlog of it pls

 

[BeanAnimal]

We don't use bottle bac here though, it's a non bottle bac thread so we exist differently than all the rest thank you for posting

You mean like we did it for decades before bottled bacteria was around or popular?

:)