About to Quit

[Danroo]

I’m on board with this, but I need to get these corals moved from the 10-gallon they’re in. The bio load of the NPS is just too significant for such a tiny tank and I can’t keep up with the 2-3X per week water changes it would need for me to really be able to feed them the way I should.

I hate the idea of starting over just to start over again after we move, but it sounds like our move has been pushed back a bit, so I don’t think it would be that pointless to get things running well now.

Plus, if everyone is healthy and happy before we move, I feel like they’ll have better chance of survival when the time actually comes.

I’m surprised no one was able to identify this problem and was being able fix it. It does feel the tank is sterile.

 

[Weasel1960]

Sounds like a good plan if you think your reboot will be completed before you actually do move. I would recommend thoroughly cleaning everything and rinsing well with RODI. Then inspect all your tanks, sump, equipment for any potential issues and replace as needed. Not sure how much to have in the way of corals but maybe just keep them happy the way they are while you do your DT reboot. Good luck, start a new thread and put this one behind you.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Did she quit?
-d

 

[ScottR]

There’s a lot said in this thread but after seeing the ICP results, I’d run cuprisorb.

 

[Weasel1960]

Did she quit?
-d

No sounds like Ctrl-Alt-Del = Reboot with some corrective actions.

 

[Apollo7235]

It may be more productive to change your expectations a bit based on how your tank is coming together.

Your tank is advancing on what looks like a 1yr path to a happy point.

Most reefers use to think this was right on track before all the internet heros built the fantasy that anyone with any tank can buy and optimize their way into a perfect reef in a few mo.

I mean, are you sure you want yo use vibrant on the level of alga in the pictures you posted? Why not be patient and let the snails eat at it for a month or two first?

Because the snails don’t survive long enough in the tank to eat it…

 

[Apollo7235]

Sounds like a good plan if you think your reboot will be completed before you actually do move. I would recommend thoroughly cleaning everything and rinsing well with RODI. Then inspect all your tanks, sump, equipment for any potential issues and replace as needed. Not sure how much to have in the way of corals but maybe just keep them happy the way they are while you do your DT reboot. Good luck, start a new thread and put this one behind you.

That’s the plan. I’m probably going to order the live rock this week or next week, so hopefully I will have everything torn down, cleaned and put ack together within the month.

Ugh. So frustrating. $200+ in rock and sand gone to waste.

 

[Cell]

I would be hesitant to reboot until I figured out what exactly went wrong in the first place. If it's the metals, I would need to determine the source before making a further investment. I'm not completely caught up here, maybe the cause was determined.

 

[Apollo7235]

I would be hesitant to reboot until I figured out what exactly went wrong in the first place. If it's the metals, I would need to determine the source before making a further investment. I'm not completely caught up here, maybe the cause was determined.

The only thing I can figure must have caused the metal contamination is the dry rock or sand. All of my equipment is brand new and I can't find anything that is corroding in any way in or around the tank. At this point, all I can think would solve this is getting rid of the rock and sand and replacing it, but this time I am going with live rock and live sand from the gulf.

 

[FishyFishFish]

You didn't answer the question I asked earlier about the live rock. Was it wet or dry? If wet, where was it held? Was it in the tank at your LFS with their livestock in it or a separate tank?

Could it be that your LFS contaminated the rock?

 

[BostonReefer300]

That’s the plan. I’m probably going to order the live rock this week or next week, so hopefully I will have everything torn down, cleaned and put ack together within the month.

Ugh. So frustrating. $200+ in rock and sand gone to waste.

Sorry I'm late to the party after the ICP results came in.

IMO, the only thing that's definitely a concern is the copper level (and maybe aluminum). Your DT water has 31 ppb copper which is roughly 65 times lower than the level of copper used to treat fish diseases (2 ppm) but is also still about 65 times higher than what's found in natural seawater (according to ATI anyway). Is that level enough to harm corals over long periods of time? I don't know, but my guess is that it's not good for them. It's also possible that the level was higher in your water in the early days than when you eventually took your test sample because your copper contamination has been reduced by water changes.

Regarding aluminum, I know a lot of people get up in arms about it, but what I've read (including an old paper by Randy Holmes-Farley https://reefs.com/magazine/chemistry-and-the-aquarium-aluminum-in-the-reef-aquarium/) suggests that it's not a huge deal until levels get up near 1 ppm. Your level is elevated against baseline, but at 14 ppb you're about 70X below that level. Again, could prolonged exposure at even such a low level harm corals, I don't know---but same thoughts as stated above regarding copper.

None of the other results worry me. I think silicon is nothing to worry about particularly at your level (https://reefs.com/magazine/silica-in-reef-aquariums/). Same with Manganese (https://www.faunamarin.de/en/knowledge-base/manganese/). Zinc is a necessary element, but too much (50-100X seawater) can be a bad thing. (https://reefs.com/2017/03/10/be-careful-with-zinc-levels-in-your-reef/) You're level isn't that much higher than seawater. Regarding Tin, I have to do more research.

OVERALL: I'D SUGGEST YOU DO ANOTHER ICP TEST ON YOUR DT WATER BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY DRASTIC CHANGES. We don't know what ATI's error rates are for the various parameters they test or if there were other variables in play here. If you do another test before changing things and similar results come back, you can have very high confidence in the results. If they come back significantly different, it's a different ballgame. In carpentry, the old saying is "measure twice, cut once". I highly encourage you follow that advice here before you throw away expensive stuff.

 

[Apollo7235]

You didn't answer the question I asked earlier about the live rock. Was it wet or dry? If wet, where was it held? Was it in the tank at your LFS with their livestock in it or a separate tank?

Could it be that your LFS contaminated the rock?

It was wet when I bought it, in a separate tank than the livestock. I doubt it was the source of the contamination because I was having these issues before I bought it and actually bought it to try and solve the problem.

 

[Apollo7235]

Sorry I'm late to the party after the ICP results came in.

IMO, the only thing that's definitely a concern is the copper level (and maybe aluminum). Your DT water has 31 ppb copper which is roughly 65 times lower than the level of copper used to treat fish diseases (2 ppm) but is also still about 65 times higher than what's found in natural seawater (according to ATI anyway). Is that level enough to harm corals over long periods of time? I don't know, but my guess is that it's not good for them. It's also possible that the level was higher in your water in the early days than when you eventually took your test sample because your copper contamination has been reduced by water changes.

Regarding aluminum, I know a lot of people get up in arms about it, but what I've read (including an old paper by Randy Holmes-Farley https://reefs.com/magazine/chemistry-and-the-aquarium-aluminum-in-the-reef-aquarium/) suggests that it's not a huge deal until levels get up near 1 ppm. Your level is elevated against baseline, but at 14 ppb you're about 70X below that level. Again, could prolonged exposure at even such a low level harm corals, I don't know---but same thoughts as stated above regarding copper.

None of the other results worry me. I think silicon is nothing to worry about particularly at your level (https://reefs.com/magazine/silica-in-reef-aquariums/). Same with Manganese (https://www.faunamarin.de/en/knowledge-base/manganese/). Zinc is a necessary element, but too much (50-100X seawater) can be a bad thing. (https://reefs.com/2017/03/10/be-careful-with-zinc-levels-in-your-reef/) You're level isn't that much higher than seawater. Regarding Tin, I have to do more research.

OVERALL: I'D SUGGEST YOU DO ANOTHER ICP TEST ON YOUR DT WATER BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY DRASTIC CHANGES. We don't know what ATI's error rates are for the various parameters they test or if there were other variables in play here. If you do another test before changing things and similar results come back, you can have very high confidence in the results. If they come back significantly different, it's a different ballgame. In carpentry, the old saying is "measure twice, cut once". I highly encourage you follow that advice here before you throw away expensive stuff.

I actually ended up having to have my hand biopsied yesterday so, unfortunately, I am not going to be able to do much in the way of tank stuff for about two weeks. Just cleaning my qt and doing my biweekly water changes is going to tough enough as it is. Rip-cleaning a tank and handling live rock with a dime-sized hole is my hand probably isn’t the best idea.

So, that considered, I am going to swing by Petco this weekend and grab some CupriSorb and poly-filters so I can try to get these metals under control. I am also going to remove all the MarinePure cubes from the sump.

I will order a second ICP test which I will send out after I’ve run the CupriSorb and the poly-filters for a week or two and if it comes back clear, I will order some Grunge+ and call it good. If not, I will do a rip clean reboot with live sand and live rock.

 

[Shirak]

I actually ended up having to have my hand biopsied yesterday so, unfortunately, I am not going to be able to do much in the way of tank stuff for about two weeks. Just cleaning my qt and doing my biweekly water changes is going to tough enough as it is. Rip-cleaning a tank and handling live rock with a dime-sized hole is my hand probably isn’t the best idea.

So, that considered, I am going to swing by Petco this weekend and grab some CupriSorb and poly-filters so I can try to get these metals under control. I am also going to remove all the MarinePure cubes from the sump.

I will order a second ICP test which I will send out after I’ve run the CupriSorb and the poly-filters for a week or two and if it comes back clear, I will order some Grunge+ and call it good. If not, I will do a rip clean reboot with live sand and live rock.

Sounds like a good plan to me. Hope you hear good things on the biopsy!

 

[Apollo7235]

Sounds like a good plan to me. Hope you hear good things on the biopsy!

Me too! Thank you!

 

[tehmadreefer]

I’m surprised no one was able to identify this problem and was being able fix it. It does feel the tank is sterile.

Lots of us have identified the issue, the OP just doesn’t believe it. Yes, sterile tank, plus young tank, plus consistent fiddling and not letting a system properly mature.

Can’t force people to listen…

 

[Danroo]

Lots of us have identified the issue, the OP just doesn’t believe it. Yes, sterile tank, plus young tank, plus consistent fiddling and not letting a system properly mature.

Can’t force people to listen…

What’s the issue all I’m seeing is mixed answers. One of the statements mentioned about having to much copper. But shouldn’t the copper only affect the inhabitants, why is it making the tank sterile for the algae to grow? Algae can literally grow anywhere.

 

[JCM]

Lots of us have identified the issue, the OP just doesn’t believe it. Yes, sterile tank, plus young tank, plus consistent fiddling and not letting a system properly mature.

Can’t force people to listen…

She has been listening and taking advice from this post.

And plenty of us don't think that's the only problem. Yes it's a young tank, but a 4 month old tank should be capable of keeping snails alive for more than a day.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

She has been listening and taking advice from this post.

And plenty of us don't think that's the only problem. Yes it's a young tank, but a 4 month old tank should be capable of keeping snails alive for more than a day.

I have a 300 gallon tank that’s been up and running for about eight months and cannot keep any snails as well I have not done much testing because it’s my third tank in the house and I don’t care as much as I do about the other tanks but for what it’s worth I think it might be my nitrates at 50 and phosphates at .7 but who knows And they come from much cleaner water

 

[BostonReefer300]

Sounds like a good plan to me. Hope you hear good things on the biopsy!

+1 on both points above!