About to quit

tharbin

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 22, 2021
Messages
4,401
Reaction score
30,842
Location
Arizona
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I thought one should be fine based on this BRS vid.


That video ended up with two Primes over an LPS 40 gallon tank and three over a SPS one. I have one Prime over a 15 peninsula and it is barely enough. Like others have said, check your calcium alkalinity and magnesium but you will not grow anything more than low-light tolerant LPS with only one Prime.

I doubt your phosphate is really zero and with your water change schedule I think the water is probably not the issue unless you are literally starving your fish.
 

Arego

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Messages
701
Reaction score
807
Location
Macomb
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I see many people battling algae with the idea if you lower nutrients you will succeed. Lowering nutrients will only cause problems and for the most it will not remove the algae issue.
I ran 60-80ppm for 3 years with no algae problems, I've since tuned it down to 15-20. I wouldn't test or try to change a thing even if someone paid me to.
 

Cell

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
14,111
Reaction score
21,713
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Yeah low light isn't the issue at hand. 0 po4 is a coral killer, unchecked alkalinity isn't good either but probably not the immediate problem either if you do water changes and have no living stonies

Feed more, feed the corals and if that doesn't help dose liquid po4 solution

What kind of rock? Some rocks absorb po4 for months until you have dumped in enough and it is saturated
When his softies are growing fine, but the hammers/torches and other LPS are dying, insufficient lighting can absolutely be a factor. Perhaps not the sole issue, but one of several.
 

Lyss

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Messages
1,263
Reaction score
1,925
Location
New York City
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Did you ever post your All/Cal/Mag numbers? I didn't see. Even if it's only 5 frags you still have to test for those once you have stony corals in the tank. Maybe you won't have to dose yet and water changes will be sufficient, but you can only know that if you test.
 

czoolander

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
Messages
606
Reaction score
564
Location
Vancouver
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I am following along on this thread because this is literally the exact same issue I am having in my 2 year old tank its kinda spooky.

Cant for the life of me figure out what I am missing in my reef to have success growing soft corals / keeping lps corals alive. wont even put an lps coral in my tank because I know what will happen

Not to hijack the orginal post but I am having the exact same problem

3 red sea LED 90 lights running 40% blues 20% whites
2 MP40 running on lagoon setting turning over 2100 gph on 15%
Salinity 1.025
Nitrate 10
Phosphate 0.00
Calcium 450
Magnesium 1500
Alkalinity 8.7
Tempature 77.8

Frustrating ............. comes to mind
 

((FORDTECH))

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
4,838
Reaction score
4,270
Location
Chicago
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I am following along on this thread because this is literally the exact same issue I am having in my 2 year old tank its kinda spooky.

Cant for the life of me figure out what I am missing in my reef to have success growing soft corals / keeping lps corals alive. wont even put an lps coral in my tank because I know what will happen

Not to hijack the orginal post but I am having the exact same problem

3 red sea LED 90 lights running 40% blues 20% whites
2 MP40 running on lagoon setting turning over 2100 gph on 15%
Salinity 1.025
Nitrate 10
Phosphate 0.00
Calcium 450
Magnesium 1500
Alkalinity 8.7
Tempature 77.8

Frustrating ............. comes to mind
What comes to mind to me is again the 0 phosphates number. I run mine at .20 nitrates around 20
 

czoolander

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
Messages
606
Reaction score
564
Location
Vancouver
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
What comes to mind to me is again the 0 phosphates number. I run mine at .20 nitrates around 20
I am assuming I am not a true 0 phosphates that the corals I do have are eating some phosphate . I feed daily Mysis shrimp or pellets and Red Sea AB+ to the corals I cant get my phosphate to increase haha I am dosing Vibrant weekly just below recommended dose . 139 gallon system 1 ml per 10 gallon dose and I am dosing 10 ml .

I guess my options would be to stop dosing vibrant or dose a product that adds phosphate ?
 

sixty_reefer

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
5,523
Reaction score
7,833
Location
The Reef
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I am assuming I am not a true 0 phosphates that the corals I do have are eating some phosphate . I feed daily Mysis shrimp or pellets and Red Sea AB+ to the corals I cant get my phosphate to increase haha I am dosing Vibrant weekly just below recommended dose . 139 gallon system 1 ml per 10 gallon dose and I am dosing 10 ml .

I guess my options would be to stop dosing vibrant or dose a product that adds phosphate ?
The assumption is wrong. If the test kit says zero than the highly probable that it’s zero. :)
 

czoolander

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
Messages
606
Reaction score
564
Location
Vancouver
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The assumption is wrong. If the test kit says zero than the highly probable that it’s zero. :)
So I guess my question would be what are my options for increasing phosphate ?

Turn off my skimmer?
Feed heavier then I currently am ?
Dosing some liquid phosphate ?
Something I am missing?

Preferably a small increase in phosphate would be desirable as I do not want to go from low phosphate to high phosphate and be dealing with nuisance algea

Sorry to OP to hijack haha but dude I am literally having the same issue as you and seems like very similar peramiters haha
 

sixty_reefer

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
5,523
Reaction score
7,833
Location
The Reef
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So I guess my question would be what are my options for increasing phosphate ?

Turn off my skimmer?
Feed heavier then I currently am ?
Dosing some liquid phosphate ?
Something I am missing?

Preferably a small increase in phosphate would be desirable as I do not want to go from low phosphate to high phosphate and be dealing with nuisance algea

Sorry to OP to hijack haha but dude I am literally having the same issue as you and seems like very similar peramiters haha
I would dose phosphate as it’s something that can be controlled more easily.
 

elysics

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
1,492
Reaction score
1,482
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
When his softies are growing fine, but the hammers/torches and other LPS are dying, insufficient lighting can absolutely be a factor. Perhaps not the sole issue, but one of several.
LPS melting after a couple weeks and closed zoas? Long-term maybe but not that fast.

Zoa's don't usually close up from too little light

I'm not saying that more light wouldn't be a good thing,but I don't think it's the first issue that should be tackled considering limited time, funds, and nerves
 

brahm

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
492
Reaction score
357
Location
Mammoth Lakes,Ca
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
SMH, all this talk about phosphate nitrates, the issue isn’t tuning colour, or optimizing.

Folks on this forum are so quick to jump to the most complicated causes, when we haven’t even established if the person has the basics husbandry down to support the corals they are wanting to add. You can 100% run and grow coral perfectly fine at 0/0 we did it for decades. You can also grow euphylia with light good enough to sustain softies.


What info are we missing. How are things are being maintained, how things are being tested, how old are the tests , the frequency of those tests, what parameters are swinging between? What is the calcium, alk, mag? How is the flow setup. A picture of the tank would help as to the age of the equipment. When did you try to add those frags what did they look like, how did they die (bleach, polyp bailouts, brown jelly, etc)? Could you ever keep them or issue this issue recent?

All we know is that the tank is 3 years old, supports some fish and some softies, won’t support lps or Zoas does water changes, and we got a snapshot of 1 moments worth of a small set of parameters.

Before adding more complications , I would verify your temp is correct and not swinging setup an ATO, test and log to establish trends in all your main parameters. Salinity, temp, alk, calcium, mag (daily) - n&p ( weekly / 2x a month).
 
Last edited:

Dan_P

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
6,569
Reaction score
7,023
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'm at my whits end.

I have a 40g innovative marine tank.
AI prime light.
Innovative ghost skimmer (at least I have no micro bubbles). Yea me! /S ( big s for lots of sarcasm)
Jebao wave maker. On a setting to run like 10 seconds then stop for like 10 seconds

Do 5g water changes weekly. Usually 5 but sometimes 10 if I miss a week.

Salinity 1.025. (fish store water)
Test kits are salifert except phosphate (Hanna)
Ph - 8.0
NO3 - 2.5
NO2 - like 0
Phosphate is 0
Temp 80

Livestock
Clownfish, yellow coris wrasse, firefish
Royal urchin
Some scarlet hermits
nassarius snail

So my issue. I can't get most corals to thrive or even live. I buy frags as I don't want to buy an expensive rock to just kill it.
I've lost 2 hammers and a torch. Look good for couple weeks then just melt.
Zoa's either close up for good or the two I have that open, just don't grow new polyps.
I have a Kenya tree, blue sympodium, cloves, and gorgonian all doing ok. The kenya tree doesnt split so it's not a pain in the ****.
The sympodium and gorg are doing really well. Actually see growth.
The cloves are starting to loose numbers.
I feed reef roids once a week. Do I need more?


Now I've had this tank for 3 yrs. I don't make crazy changes. I've tried to let the tank alone.

I've attached my light schedule. I changed it several months ago to the one you see. It wasn't much changes.

I really would like a zoa garden and a torch. That's it.

I'm really sad.

I know this hobie is not set it and forget it, but I'm doing the things (I think) that I'm told I need to do.

Screenshot_20211121-111115.png
It’s tough to be good in this hobby. So, factor that into your evaluation.

If you work at something, anything, for three years and you aren’t achieving your goals, it’s time to seriously evaluate whether spending any more time and money is going to accomplish anything different in the next year.

Keeping a reef aquarium is just a hobby. If you aren’t good at it, who cares. If it is not working for you, bail out now and pursue something else. Come back to it in a few years.
 

elysics

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
1,492
Reaction score
1,482
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
SMH, all this talk about phosphate nitrates, the issue isn’t tuning colour, or optimizing.

Folks on this forum are so quick to jump to the most complicated causes, when we haven’t even established if the person has the basics husbandry down to support the corals they are wanting to add. You can 100% run and grow coral perfectly fine at 0/0 we did it for decades. You can also grow euphylia with light good enough to sustain softies.


What info are we missing. How are things are being maintained, how things are being tested, how old are the tests , the frequency of those tests, what parameters are swinging between? What is the calcium, alk, mag? How is the flow setup. A picture of the tank would help as to the age of the equipment. When did you try to add those frags what did they look like, how did they die (bleach, polyp bailouts, brown jelly, etc)? Could you ever keep them or issue this issue recent?

All we know is that the tank is 3 years old, supports some fish and some softies, won’t support lps or Zoas does water changes, and we got a snapshot of 1 moments worth of a small set of parameters.

I would verify your temp is correct and not swinging setup an ATO, test and log to establish trends in all your main parameters. Salinity, temp, alk, calcium, mag (daily) - n&p ( weekly / 2x a month).
Perfectly fine at 0 po4 as measured with a Hanna checker or something of similar precision ? Or with wildly inaccurate ones that couldn't tell 0 from 0.02 from 0.05, maybe 0.1? I could imagine that it's possible in finetuned ULNS systems that are fed constantly,but that's not what op has
 
Last edited:

tharbin

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 22, 2021
Messages
4,401
Reaction score
30,842
Location
Arizona
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
SMH, all this talk about phosphate nitrates, the issue isn’t tuning colour, or optimizing.

Folks on this forum are so quick to jump to the most complicated causes, when we haven’t even established if the person has the basics husbandry down to support the corals they are wanting to add. You can 100% run and grow coral perfectly fine at 0/0 we did it for decades. You can also grow euphylia with light good enough to sustain softies.


What info are we missing. How are things are being maintained, how things are being tested, how old are the tests , the frequency of those tests, what parameters are swinging between? What is the calcium, alk, mag? How is the flow setup. A picture of the tank would help as to the age of the equipment. When did you try to add those frags what did they look like, how did they die (bleach, polyp bailouts, brown jelly, etc)? Could you ever keep them or issue this issue recent?

All we know is that the tank is 3 years old, supports some fish and some softies, won’t support lps or Zoas does water changes, and we got a snapshot of 1 moments worth of a small set of parameters.

Before adding more complications , I would verify your temp is correct and not swinging setup an ATO, test and log to establish trends in all your main parameters. Salinity, temp, alk, calcium, mag (daily) - n&p ( weekly / 2x a month).
This is absolutely true. It is indeed much more complicated to give good advice. I was definitely premature in my suggestion. Thanks for the reminder to not help other people spend their money and time without adequate knowledge of what they really need.
 

sixty_reefer

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
5,523
Reaction score
7,833
Location
The Reef
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
SMH, all this talk about phosphate nitrates, the issue isn’t tuning colour, or optimizing.

Folks on this forum are so quick to jump to the most complicated causes, when we haven’t even established if the person has the basics husbandry down to support the corals they are wanting to add. You can 100% run and grow coral perfectly fine at 0/0 we did it for decades. You can also grow euphylia with light good enough to sustain softies.


8 years ago wend your tank was featured in that magazine, I would imagine that most test kits wouldn’t be as accurate as today, we live in a different time regarding reef tech. this kind of statement is really counterproductive for new comers to the hobby, advocating success on 0/0 is just irresponsible.

I would be surprised if dinoflagellates are already thriving in the op’s tank, that’s what 2021 brings wend your nutrients bottom out. If he doesn’t have them already is just a matter of time.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
F

FOBbit

New Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 24, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
10
Location
Breinigsville, PA 18031, USA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I just did my phosphates. .06 Hanna checker

I'm going to get a calcium & alk test kits tomorrow
Other test kits are only about 3 months old

The parameters are checked every other day usually. As they don't swing really at all. I do only check them at night when I get home from work.

How would an ATO work on a tank like this?

I attached a pic of the tank

Czoolander, don't be sorry. If we have similar issues

PXL_20211124_220651170.jpg
 

tharbin

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 22, 2021
Messages
4,401
Reaction score
30,842
Location
Arizona
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
8 years ago wend your tank was featured in that magazine, I would imagine that most test kits wouldn’t be as accurate as today, we live in a different time regarding reef tech. this kind of statement is really counterproductive for new comers to the hobby, advocating success on 0/0 is just irresponsible.

I would be surprised if dinoflagellates are already thriving in the op’s tank, that’s what 2021 brings wend your nutrients bottom out. If he doesn’t have them already is just a matter of time.
Most test kits have not changed in 20+ years and I doubt they are any more accurate than they were 40 years ago. The only difference is that with a Hanna you have a better calibrated eye interpreting the results and a false sense of accuracy. Today's test kits are no better or worse than the ones in the 70s. What is better is that we now have reference solutions available to test our own ability to use the kits.

Brahm did not advocate 0/0 he merely stated that 0/0 will not kill your coral which is true because 0/0 doesn't exist. The OP did not mention dinos so there is no reason to think his system is overrun with them unless he states otherwise. 0/0 is a red herring. Yes you want some nitrate and phosphate and too much is bad as well but the only way to truly have 0/0 is a sterile tank. Will your corals thrive if your kits read 0/0? No but they won't die in weeks either. 0/0 doesn't really exist.
 

elysics

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
1,492
Reaction score
1,482
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I just did my phosphates. .06 Hanna checker

I'm going to get a calcium & alk test kits tomorrow
Other test kits are only about 3 months old

The parameters are checked every other day usually. As they don't swing really at all. I do only check them at night when I get home from work.

How would an ATO work on a tank like this?

I attached a pic of the tank

Czoolander, don't be sorry. If we have similar issues

PXL_20211124_220651170.jpg
Do you consider a change from 0 to 0.06 no swing really at all? Or is the 0.06 new after feeding more already?

Maybe i was a bit hasty afterall attributing it just to po4, if so i apologize

Is just the tank three years old or the rockwork and sand as well?
 

A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

  • I currently have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 66 37.5%
  • Not currently, but I have had feather dusters in my tank in the past.

    Votes: 59 33.5%
  • I have not had feather dusters, but I hope to in the future.

    Votes: 25 14.2%
  • I have no plans to have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 26 14.8%
  • Other.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
Back
Top