Acro help please 🙏

[Echoplex]

Hello everyone. This may be a little long winded but I believe context and history may be important here.

I am a newer Reefer about 8 months in. At 6 months I got into acros. I like a challenge. I currently have a walt disney, home wrecker, cherry bomb, ice breaker and voodoo magic all from TG.

About a month ago I finished a 76 day fallow period. Before the fallow ended I was running on ultra low nutrients which is expected. Phos was about .01-.07 and required me to dose phos to keep the levels up. Generally at .03-.06, at times it did bottom out at .00 for a day. My nitrates would sit at 5-7 pretty steadily and required nothing extra. Alk was stable at 9.8 for weeks with no change.

I have a 161 gallon system. 131 display 30 gallon sump. Red sea skimmer 900 reef matt 1200 and I run the red sea 4 part dosing on an automated dosing schedule.

Fast forward to fish reintroduction. I do have a larger bioload. Purple and sailfin tang, one spot fox facce, two chromis, two dispar anthias, 2 clowns, 2 flasher wrasse, 1 lemon wrasse a pajama cardinal and a yellow and demon gobie.

Within two days alk tanked to 8.4, I got it back to where it should be over a period of days. Took about a week and a half to make it back to 9.4, and i continued till it hit 9.8. I did a water change recently and it jumped from 9.8 to 10.1. Alk is officially stable. I assume this happened due to the increased nutrients, I also noticed coraline growing on the wave makers and snail shells. With alk now stable a new issue. My nitrates have jumped to 11 and my phos is at .2!!!

I noticed some very slow STN on my homewrecker from the base. Pics posted, after watching it over the past week I confirmed it was stn and moving up the branch. I don't want to lose it so I fragged it above the line that was receding. Pics of that here as well. The thing is when I did the fragging the darn thing was extremely brittle, the bone cutters made a crunch feel instead of a cut. Almost as if the core was slushy or hollow.

Research tells me the high alk and the high phos cause the calcification to act too quickly and since the high phos it's not calcifying into a solid structure, rather the hollow bones I am describing.

Is this the case? Have I nuked all my sps and just can't tell they are slushy under the skin? They all have polyps extended and I am hoping the homewrecker is just sensitive to the alk swings or something.

Will a gfo reactor work and will they recover if that is the case? I plan to slowly lower phos to not shock the system, I'll use half the recommended GFO and test daily. Hoping to not bring it down by more than .02 a day. I ordered the recatorntoday from brs to be here Friday.

I would really like some advise on this. These corals were not inexpensive by any sense of the word but more importantly I want to be successful. I'll put in the work but without a mentor I find myself running in circles.

Thank you for your assistance.

 

[Dburr1014]

Hello everyone. This may be a little long winded but I believe context and history may be important here.

I am a newer Reefer about 8 months in. At 6 months I got into acros. I like a challenge. I currently have a walt disney, home wrecker, cherry bomb, ice breaker and voodoo magic all from TG.

About a month ago I finished a 76 day fallow period. Before the fallow ended I was running on ultra low nutrients which is expected. Phos was about .01-.07 and required me to dose phos to keep the levels up. Generally at .03-.06, at times it did bottom out at .00 for a day. My nitrates would sit at 5-7 pretty steadily and required nothing extra. Alk was stable at 9.8 for weeks with no change.

I have a 161 gallon system. 131 display 30 gallon sump. Red sea skimmer 900 reef matt 1200 and I run the red sea 4 part dosing on an automated dosing schedule.

Fast forward to fish reintroduction. I do have a larger bioload. Purple and sailfin tang, one spot fox facce, two chromis, two dispar anthias, 2 clowns, 2 flasher wrasse, 1 lemon wrasse a pajama cardinal and a yellow and demon gobie.

Within two days alk tanked to 8.4, I got it back to where it should be over a period of days. Took about a week and a half to make it back to 9.4, and i continued till it hit 9.8. I did a water change recently and it jumped from 9.8 to 10.1. Alk is officially stable. I assume this happened due to the increased nutrients, I also noticed coraline growing on the wave makers and snail shells. With alk now stable a new issue. My nitrates have jumped to 11 and my phos is at .2!!!

I noticed some very slow STN on my homewrecker from the base. Pics posted, after watching it over the past week I confirmed it was stn and moving up the branch. I don't want to lose it so I fragged it above the line that was receding. Pics of that here as well. The thing is when I did the fragging the darn thing was extremely brittle, the bone cutters made a crunch feel instead of a cut. Almost as if the core was slushy or hollow.

Research tells me the high alk and the high phos cause the calcification to act too quickly and since the high phos it's not calcifying into a solid structure, rather the hollow bones I am describing.

Is this the case? Have I nuked all my sps and just can't tell they are slushy under the skin? They all have polyps extended and I am hoping the homewrecker is just sensitive to the alk swings or something.

Will a gfo reactor work and will they recover if that is the case? I plan to slowly lower phos to not shock the system, I'll use half the recommended GFO and test daily. Hoping to not bring it down by more than .02 a day. I ordered the recatorntoday from brs to be here Friday.

I would really like some advise on this. These corals were not inexpensive by any sense of the word but more importantly I want to be successful. I'll put in the work but without a mentor I find myself running in circles.

Thank you for your assistance.

What test kits are you using?

Being brittle doesn't happen overnight it's the constant uptake as they grow. Be careful with the GFO, don't start swinging PO4 all around because it's easy to do. Phosphate gets bound to the rock as you probably know and released as it gets lower.

It's super hard to recreate natural a environment in a box. We must remember with every action, there will be a reaction.
High alk, high uptake of nutrients. Low alk, lower uptake. Spike the alk, stop the uptake all together. I think/feel a 9.x alk is high. Natural alk in the oceans is closer to 8. When coral build to fast they do tend to get brittle. Keeping a 8ish alk is a sweet spot in my book
So, when you have spikes in anything, it's important to check all parameters that you can for a week or so because coral can stop uptake (nutrients will raise) excel uptake (nutrients will lower) or not change at all.

My trick when coral are stressed is to simply turn down the light intensity and let them rest. 10% for a week or two until I see the stress has stopped. Then start to raise it up every couple of days.

All in all, you haven't nuked anything. Just get them to reset, check parameters daily for a week if possible, don't do any drastic changes (GFO can do this, be careful), and I suggest to lower you light intensity while you get the reset.

 

[CHSUB]

Ultimately SPS corals need food, clean water, stability. Your focus seems to be hobby parameter results, which are inaccurate and only marginally important. Corals don’t consume no3 and po4, their zooxanthella do. So corals can starve with high nutrients because the zooxanthella use the nutrients for their growth instead of transferring energy to the host coral. You need to ensure corals have adequate food while simultaneously lowering your inorganic no3 and po4. This is achieved be feeding and vigorous, consistent maintenance.

Feed the corals, lower inorganic nutrients and stop focusing on Alk. Personally my tanks have run anywhere from 6 to 10 dKH with fine results and bounces between there almost daily are fine.

 

[Echoplex]

What test kits are you using?

Being brittle doesn't happen overnight it's the constant uptake as they grow. Be careful with the GFO, don't start swinging PO4 all around because it's easy to do. Phosphate gets bound to the rock as you probably know and released as it gets lower.

It's super hard to recreate natural a environment in a box. We must remember with every action, there will be a reaction.
High alk, high uptake of nutrients. Low alk, lower uptake. Spike the alk, stop the uptake all together. I think/feel a 9.x alk is high. Natural alk in the oceans is closer to 8. When coral build to fast they do tend to get brittle. Keeping a 8ish alk is a sweet spot in my book
So, when you have spikes in anything, it's important to check all parameters that you can for a week or so because coral can stop uptake (nutrients will raise) excel uptake (nutrients will lower) or not change at all.

My trick when coral are stressed is to simply turn down the light intensity and let them rest. 10% for a week or two until I see the stress has stopped. Then start to raise it up every couple of days.

All in all, you haven't nuked anything. Just get them to reset, check parameters daily for a week if possible, don't do any drastic changes (GFO can do this, be careful), and I suggest to lower you light intensity while you get the reset.

I use hanna tests for alk, nitrate and ulr phosphates. I also occasionally use my hanna cal tester too. I worry that dropping alk back down would cause even more stress. Do you think that is not something I should worry about or instead I should let it ride and hold stable? I can cancel my reactor order if you think that will do more harm than good.

 

[Echoplex]

Ultimately SPS corals need food, clean water, stability. Your focus seems to be hobby parameter results, which are inaccurate and only marginally important. Corals don’t consume no3 and po4, their zooxanthella do. So corals can starve with high nutrients because the zooxanthella use the nutrients for their growth instead of transferring energy to the host coral. You need to ensure corals have adequate food while simultaneously lowering your inorganic no3 and po4. This is achieved be feeding and vigorous, consistent maintenance.

Feed the corals, lower inorganic nutrients and stop focusing on Alk. Personally my tanks have run anywhere from 6 to 10 dKH with fine results and bounces between there almost daily are fine.

I feed reef ab+ daily for food and it seems I have an abundance of phos now and nitrate is at an ok level. The alk bouncing between 6 and 10 is very contradictory of everything I have read and been told. They usually say that stability is much more important than anything else

 

[dwest]

Unless you started with liverock and live sand, then the acros might be struggling a bit because the system was not yet mature enough when you added them.

I personally would try to keep alkalinity steady at around 8 dKH. I would not worry about nitrate or phosphate for quite some time unless they got very close to zero. I thinking adding GFO right now is a bad idea.

Acros are difficult. I hope that these work out for you, but if not you might start with some “easier” ones that will help you determine when your system might be mature enough. I think torts are great (myagi and Cali in particular) for this purpose.

 

[CHSUB]

I feed reef ab+ daily for food and it seems I have an abundance of phos now and nitrate is at an ok level. The alk bouncing between 6 and 10 is very contradictory of everything I have read and been told. They usually say that stability is much more important than anything else

I also feed RS ab+ daily mixed with reef Roids. However, one must also export detritus with WC and turkey basting often. That keeps my inorganic nutrients near undetectable.

There is a successful method that involves dumping the entire days Alk consumption all at once. Imo, Alk stability is completely based on hobby observation and false assumptions. I dose with a dosing pump and it keeps my Alk stable, however you seem to be hyper focused on its level when more important parameters may not receive the adequate attention?

My advice is to focus on clean water and fed corals, it is a simple concept not easily executed or understood.

Your aquarium seems quite young to be using GFO and that leads me to believe maintenance is not sufficient. However, I would try to lower both no3 and po4 but prefer a maintenance approach.

 

[Echoplex]

Unless you started with liverock and live sand, then the acros might be struggling a bit because the system was not yet mature enough when you added them.

I personally would try to keep alkalinity steady at around 8 dKH. I would not worry about nitrate or phosphate for quite some time unless they got very close to zero. I thinking adding GFO right now is a bad idea.

Acros are difficult. I hope that these work out for you, but if not you might start with some “easier” ones that will help you determine when your system might be mature enough. I think torts are great (myagi and Cali in particular) for this purpose.

Thank you, I canceled the reactor order... I figured i might be jumping the gun here. I did start with live rock and sand. I really hope my walt disney does not randomly start stn/rtn as of now they seem fine. As far as alk, is it wise for me to drop the alk? I'm worried it would cause more harm than good since I was just able to get it stable again at 10.1, ifi did drop it id do it slowly by a .1 or .2 a day at most but it still makes me very nervous

 

[Echoplex]

I also feed RS ab+ daily mixed with reef Roids. However, one must also export detritus with WC and turkey basting often. That keeps my inorganic nutrients near undetectable.

There is a successful method that involves dumping the entire days Alk consumption all at once. Imo, Alk stability is completely based on hobby observation and false assumptions. I dose with a dosing pump and it keeps my Alk stable, however you seem to be hyper focused on its level when more important parameters may not receive the adequate attention?

My advice is to focus on clean water and fed corals, it is a simple concept not easily executed or understood.

Your aquarium seems quite young to be using GFO and that leads me to believe maintenance is not sufficient. However, I would try to lower both no3 and po4 but prefer a maintenance approach.

I do a 18% water change bi weekly. I here that any more could shock the system. I keep things clean and siphon the sump out to get the gross out of the tank at the same time as the water change. I have canceled the reactor order since this seems to be the consensus of our peers here. I truly appreciate the advice and still find the idea of dropping alk all at once a very scary proposal lol

 

[Dburr1014]

I wouldn't worry about the Walt Disney, I find that they are very Hardy.

 

[Echoplex]

I wouldn't worry about the Walt Disney, I find that they are very Hardy.

You have no idea how happy those words make me

 

[CHSUB]

I do a 18% water change bi weekly. I here that any more could shock the system. I keep things clean and siphon the sump out to get the gross out of the tank at the same time as the water change. I have canceled the reactor order since this seems to be the consensus of our peers here. I truly appreciate the advice and still find the idea of dropping alk all at once a very scary proposal lol

When in doubt stability is always preferable! I do ~ 8 gallons on a 40 gallon system weekly however just changing water is not sufficient unless it is accompanied with vigorous turkey basting and detritus removal. Your WC amount is fine just insure it includes cleaning.

“I practice what I preach” and so you can see the results of “fed corals and clean water”:

 

[Echoplex]

When in doubt stability is always preferable! I do ~ 8 gallons on a 40 gallon system weekly however just changing water is not sufficient unless it is accompanied with vigorous turkey basting and detritus removal. Your WC amount is fine just insure it includes cleaning.

“I practice what I preach” and so you can see the results of “fed corals and clean water”:

That looks great! I will keep that in mind! Do you think its wise to begin slowly lowering the alk now or should I give it some time? It's been at 10.1 for about 5 days or so. The plan is .1 or .2 a day lower. As you said stability is best, but everyone seems to keep saying 8-9 dkh

 

[CHSUB]

That looks great! I will keep that in mind! Do you think its wise to begin slowly lowering the alk now or should I give it some time? It's been at 10.1 for about 5 days or so. The plan is .1 or .2 a day lower. As you said stability is best, but everyone seems to keep saying 8-9 dkh

I keep mine around 7 - 8. If you go lower from 10.1 that is fine, but I would not expect to see improvement. Imo Alk is mostly about ones opinion on a level and sticking with it.

 

[dwest]

Thank you, I canceled the reactor order... I figured i might be jumping the gun here. I did start with live rock and sand. I really hope my walt disney does not randomly start stn/rtn as of now they seem fine. As far as alk, is it wise for me to drop the alk? I'm worried it would cause more harm than good since I was just able to get it stable again at 10.1, ifi did drop it id do it slowly by a .1 or .2 a day at most but it still makes me very nervous

You can keep the alkalinity where it’s at. But I personally would allow it to drift down very slowly over the course of several months to about 8. I’ve been reefing for several decades, so I don’t think in terms of days any more, I think in months and years

But I did read that you do “bigish” water changes. You might want to then target the alkalinity of your favorite salt mix, or just a bit under that. That will help you stabilize alkalinity when you do water changes.

 

[Echoplex]

I keep mine around 7 - 8. If you go lower from 10.1 that is fine, but I would not expect to see improvement. Imo Alk is mostly about ones opinion on a level and sticking with it.

Fair enough. I'll probably just maintain so I don't cause too much stress.

 

[Echoplex]

You can keep the alkalinity where it’s at. But I personally would allow it to drift down very slowly over the course of several months to about 8. I’ve been reefing for several decades, so I don’t think in terms of days any more, I think in months and years

But I did read that you do “bigish” water changes. You might want to then target the alkalinity of your favorite salt mix, or just a bit under that. That will help you stabilize alkalinity when you do water changes.

Thank you, the waterchange is definitely an issue. I have been using redsea pro salt. After the last change it did jump it up by .2 since I'm right in the middle of the normal salt and the pro I'm at a loss lol. I'll take it wc by wc and pray for no major swings lol.

 

[dwest]

Thank you, the waterchange is definitely an issue. I have been using redsea pro salt. After the last change it did jump it up by .2 since I'm right in the middle of the normal salt and the pro I'm at a loss lol. I'll take it wc by wc and pray for no major swings lol.

I don’t use that salt but I think it’s a high alkalinity salt (google says about 12 dKH). That’s a pretty good reason to for you to run your reef where you do.

 

[Echoplex]

I don’t use that salt but I think it’s a high alkalinity salt (google says about 12 dKH). That’s a pretty good reason to for you to run your reef where you do.

That is my thought as well. I like the higher mag content, time will tell i suppose.

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

Ultimately all acros thrive on rock solid Alkalinity and Calcium levels. Mag, NO3, and PO4 are somewhat secondary but if you can keep those in a range, you should be OK. SPS in general are also enormous consumers of many trace elements that are also very important. Keeping SPS, LPS and softies is TOUGH because they all require different things.

What SPS DO NOT LIKE is sudden change. Drastic change to Alk is the backbreaker. I haven't done a full blown WC in my acro tank in 2 years. Albeit I run Moonshiners and replace elements based on ICP. The BIG caveat is that my Alk and Cal are ALWAYS kept extremely solid. If you want a thriving SPS reef, you MUST keep those 2 from drifting. Water changes, unless absolutely necessary, must be kept at a minimum and only ~10% at a time.

My 2c.