Acropora scattered success - any thoughts?

[Creggers]

Hello R2R,

I've had quite the year with my tank but I'm finally in a place where I have had a lot of success (consistently) and I've just begun to reintroduce acropora over the past month or so. I've got a couple different acros in there now, and some are visibly doing very well, and others not so much. I can't tell if it's just the shock of a new tank, shipping, or something else that's holding some pieces back, but I just figured why not throw up a post and see everyone's thoughts.

About a month ago I got my first shipment of acros; I got a frogskin, TSA dan akroyd, TSA Harrold ramis, and a WWC yellow tip. The Yellow tip and Dan Akroyd had no PE in the bags, and since have shown none in the tank. The Froskin and Harold Ramis both had pe and are growing nicely. From a coloration standpoint, everything looks great. Unfortunately, just this morning I noticed that the Dan Akroyd appears to be losing flesh from the tips while everything else (including the Yellow Tip) look fine. I will also note that I start them all off in around 75-100 par, slowly moving them to 'acro rock' which has around 250-300 at peak hours (Running reef breeders / T5 combo). Lots of indirect flow as well - I do plan on adding another powerhead as one of mine died, but the flow is still on the higher end of the spectrum, just not as random as I'd like. I noticed that the flesh on the Akroyd appeared thin in the areas that it is now showing necrosis during lights off. The Yellow tip had a small section that looked thin on day one, has since died off and regrown flesh.

I'm wondering if it's all a part of the acro game, if something doesn't do well in shipping it's a roll of the dice if they're going to do well in tank - or if there's possibly something I'm overlooking that I should be doing. All new corals are floated for 15-20 minutes in bags before they're dipped, rinsed in clean salt water, than introduced to the tank. I do not drip acclimate as I've read scattered opinions on the matter (WWC for instance says to float then drop right into tank). I'd like to start purchasing slightly more expensive corals heading into the new year once I get my apex dosing unit and can lock in my CA/ALK into a tighter range, but I don't want to spend 300+ on a stick only for it to be doomed from the start.

Parameters (all hannah or trident):
ALK: 8.5-9
CA: 420-450
MAG: 1250-1350
PO4: .02-.05
NO3: 2-5
SG: 1.025
PH: 8.35-8.4

I feed a home made frozen food very similar to the BRS reef chilly recipe daily, lots of particulate food floating around the tank for corals to grab - I do not direct feed anything. I do dose AB+ once a week on Saturdays, and dose NOPOX on Wednesdays. I have also started dosing 2ml of coral snow every other day as I've seen some vermetid snails, but they're very small in number and I doubt they'd be the culprit here.

Only other thing I'll add is that I will be doing a triton water analysis come the new year - prior to introducing coral after a long fallow period I ran a test and everything came back in good order.

 

[mdb_talon]

Just my experience and opinion, but i would not stress much about the PE and dont really consider it a great barometer for health. Some of my fastest growers have little to no visible PE, but conversely some of my slower grower have great PE.

I also think it is very normal after shipping for some acros to do great, but others to basically go dormant for weeks(or sometimes months).

For me i always lose coloration for at least a few weeks on new frags and it may take me quite awhile to get to their "true" colors. Maybe it is my tank parameters or lighting difference, but always a struggle for me. If you are keeping all the colors i would take that as a really good sign.

The only thing you mentioned that i would be concerned about is losing the flesh obviously that is a big issue on that frag. Personally when i have that happen on a new frag i immediately frag off and dispose of the problem area otherwise i usually lose the whole frag

 

[ScottB]

You are likely aware that your current water parameters are solid SPS consensus numbers. Hybrid lighting and food sources also good. You also started with 1/2 KP rock, so you've been doing your homework toward becoming a successful SPS keeper.

A few things to note that might explain or improve your survival rates:

a) Just a tiny bit more time for the biome to really get into that sweet spot. You are at about a year now, but you started with some live rock so that helped that process. The dino outbreak(s) was a setback though; it cost you 4 months (a totally made up number, but you get the idea). You gotta be pretty darn close to viability I think. A dead rock start would have you with longer to run for sure.

b) I noticed in your build thread a bout or two with dinos. Add more fish and more frequent feedings if possible. Fish are the ideal source of ammonia, which is the most efficiently consumed nutrient for acropora in particular. Heavy in / heavy out really is all it is cracked up to be.

c) Dipping process questions/suggestions.
1) For acropora and AEFW, potassium chloride should be your dip. It is just as gentle as Bayer, but much easier to use. It doesn't just make the worms uncomfortable, it KILLS them. The tea tree stuff is OK, but harsher on acros than these two. You don't need to rinse with KCl. Plus, it mixes fairly clear, so you can see the pests come off.
2) I don't dip shipped corals until they've had a couple days to recover under moderate light.
3) You mentioned "rinsed in clean salt water". Is that newly mixed 11dkh Coral Pro or 8dkh tank water?
4) KCl solution is 1 tbsp per gallon tank water.

 

[Creggers]

Just my experience and opinion, but i would not stress much about the PE and dont really consider it a great barometer for health. Some of my fastest growers have little to no visible PE, but conversely some of my slower grower have great PE.

I also think it is very normal after shipping for some acros to do great, but others to basically go dormant for weeks(or sometimes months).

For me i always lose coloration for at least a few weeks on new frags and it may take me quite awhile to get to their "true" colors. Maybe it is my tank parameters or lighting difference, but always a struggle for me. If you are keeping all the colors i would take that as a really good sign.

The only thing you mentioned that i would be concerned about is losing the flesh obviously that is a big issue on that frag. Personally when i have that happen on a new frag i immediately frag off and dispose of the problem area otherwise i usually lose the whole frag

Yeah - I think that the frag losing flesh is a gonner and never really had a chance, it always seemed pretty dormant and I think it's probably going to shed the rest over the next day or so.

It's good to hear that PE isn't the end all be all, I've just noticed that following shipping the corals that seem to do the poorest are the ones who had minimal / zero PE..

You are likely aware that your current water parameters are solid SPS consensus numbers. Hybrid lighting and food sources also good. You also started with 1/2 KP rock, so you've been doing your homework toward becoming a successful SPS keeper.

A few things to note that might explain or improve your survival rates:

a) Just a tiny bit more time for the biome to really get into that sweet spot. You are at about a year now, but you started with some live rock so that helped that process. The dino outbreak(s) was a setback though; it cost you 4 months (a totally made up number, but you get the idea). You gotta be pretty darn close to viability I think. A dead rock start would have you with longer to run for sure.

b) I noticed in your build thread a bout or two with dinos. Add more fish and more frequent feedings if possible. Fish are the ideal source of ammonia, which is the most efficiently consumed nutrient for acropora in particular. Heavy in / heavy out really is all it is cracked up to be.

c) Dipping process questions/suggestions.
1) For acropora and AEFW, potassium chloride should be your dip. It is just as gentle as Bayer, but much easier to use. It doesn't just make the worms uncomfortable, it KILLS them. The tea tree stuff is OK, but harsher on acros than these two. You don't need to rinse with KCl. Plus, it mixes fairly clear, so you can see the pests come off.
2) I don't dip shipped corals until they've had a couple days to recover under moderate light.
3) You mentioned "rinsed in clean salt water". Is that newly mixed 11dkh Coral Pro or 8dkh tank water?
4) KCl solution is 1 tbsp per gallon tank water.

It's funny you checked my build thread because it's been a while since an update. I've got the tank pretty stocked with fish now so from a dino perspective I think I've crossed that off the future problems list.. come to think of it I should probably hop in there and update cause a lot has changed. The Dinos absolutely cost me some time, as well as an issue I was having with my NO3 testing (discovered my tests were out of date and my NO3 crept up really high durring my fallow period). A couple water changes and a shift away from the coral pro salt (11dkh seemed to high when I got my nutrients down) so now I run HW-marinemix pro and dose it up to ~9dkh during my water changes. Main reason I made the swap is the sediment leftover after mixing the redsea salt, I couldn't get over the rust colors and being that I was basically coral less I made the jump to something that mixes clearer.

The dipping suggestions are super helpful - the rinsed in salt water is tank water and really just to get the seachem dip off the coral because I've heard that it can build up in the tank. I'll look into something like potassium chloride, because the only thing I'm really concerned with from an acro perspective is AEFW or redbugs which it sounds like PC would solve for.

The only other thing I didn't note is I think my emerald crab picks at the acropora that I have placed on my rock, I see him up there everynight and I've been trying to grab him out to toss him into the sump. I imagine that even though he probably isn't eating the corals, his picking at the sticks is probably stressing them out and if they're not 100% health, he may be pushing them over the edge.

 

[ScottB]

Yeah - I think that the frag losing flesh is a gonner and never really had a chance, it always seemed pretty dormant and I think it's probably going to shed the rest over the next day or so.

It's good to hear that PE isn't the end all be all, I've just noticed that following shipping the corals that seem to do the poorest are the ones who had minimal / zero PE..



It's funny you checked my build thread because it's been a while since an update. I've got the tank pretty stocked with fish now so from a dino perspective I think I've crossed that off the future problems list.. come to think of it I should probably hop in there and update cause a lot has changed. The Dinos absolutely cost me some time, as well as an issue I was having with my NO3 testing (discovered my tests were out of date and my NO3 crept up really high durring my fallow period). A couple water changes and a shift away from the coral pro salt (11dkh seemed to high when I got my nutrients down) so now I run HW-marinemix pro and dose it up to ~9dkh during my water changes. Main reason I made the swap is the sediment leftover after mixing the redsea salt, I couldn't get over the rust colors and being that I was basically coral less I made the jump to something that mixes clearer.

The dipping suggestions are super helpful - the rinsed in salt water is tank water and really just to get the seachem dip off the coral because I've heard that it can build up in the tank. I'll look into something like potassium chloride, because the only thing I'm really concerned with from an acro perspective is AEFW or redbugs which it sounds like PC would solve for.

The only other thing I didn't note is I think my emerald crab picks at the acropora that I have placed on my rock, I see him up there everynight and I've been trying to grab him out to toss him into the sump. I imagine that even though he probably isn't eating the corals, his picking at the sticks is probably stressing them out and if they're not 100% health, he may be pushing them over the edge.

It is hard to get everything mentioned in single thread. So much for acropora health (IME) goes back to the beginning if the tank is <2 years old so I (try to) look there before commenting.

Dipping: Red and white bugs are a thing for sure these days but AEFW are still the larger struggle as there is no viable "in tank" treatment for them still. Plenty of snake oil but no other answer so far except to remove ALL acro/milli and dip repeatedly. Totally doable. Totally a huge pain.

Red & white bugs cannot be dipped away with ANY current dips. They require very long exposure to milbemycin oxime. For the major stick keepers, they all do semiannual in tank treatments of Interceptor. It works. The downside is all of your pods will be decimated along with any shrimp or crabs you can't trap and remove. My mandarin dragonette starved after.

I generally consider emeralds reef safe but any fish or invert can go rogue. However, most are just doing cleanup on compromised or dead flesh. Any dwarf angel is always a suspect in my tanks.

Big picture: I think your biome has to be really close for sustaining acros -- especially since your fish load is in a better place now. Maybe hold off on the homewrecker for a bit but add some other more robust and cost effective pieces and see what sticks.