Adding HOB OverFlow Box Safety Measures

[Dav2996]

I have a 20 gallon nuvo tank all in one I want to add eschopps nano over flow box. I want to add eschopps 5 gallon cube nano refugium sump.

I saw putting holes in the return from the sump can reduce siphoning your tank into the sump during power outages.

If I loose siphone to the overflow box what preventive measures can I use from it flooding my sump from the tank?

My tank is active so I do not think I can drill.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/cube...MWEiiuO4j2T6ViZn3xahYKE_dIz7ZKyMaAl9jEALw_wcB

 

[Gtinnel]

If you lose siphon to the overflow box it’s actually an issue of flooding the tank from the sump because the water can’t return to the sump. The old solution was that there were overflows that used a pump running all the time that would always be pulling water or air from the siphon tube, so that if air got into the pipe it was sucked out creating a siphon again.
The pump that was commonly used was a Toms Aqualifter Pump, but I don’t believe its made any longer. I would personally never run a hob overflow without some kind of equivalent pump to make sure a siphon is maintained.

 

[Gtinnel]

Apparently they do still make that style of overflow with an aqualifter pump. Here is something similar to what I was describing that’s sold by BRS.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/delu...LJWaWr4CrjcOc8hdXmRssetXFeerFTWAaAk9HEALw_wcB

 

[WVNed]

The only way that I can think of at the moment is a Hydros XS controller with a water level sensor that would stop the return pump. The sensor could detect either if the overflow box was empty of if the tank level was too high.

 

[Dav2996]

Apparently they do still make that style of overflow with an aqualifter pump. Here is something similar to what I was describing that’s sold by BRS.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/delu...LJWaWr4CrjcOc8hdXmRssetXFeerFTWAaAk9HEALw_wcB

I watched this video and I thought it was genius with the flooding the sump part using this setup. Sometimes when power goes out the water siphons from where it’s pumped from back into the sump and it prevents the siphon.

 

[Dav2996]

Apparently they do still make that style of overflow with an aqualifter pump. Here is something similar to what I was describing that’s sold by BRS.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/delu...LJWaWr4CrjcOc8hdXmRssetXFeerFTWAaAk9HEALw_wcB

I will look into this over flow box. :)

 

[Gtinnel]

I watched this video and I thought it was genius with the flooding the sump part using this setup. Sometimes when power goes out the water siphons from where it’s pumped from back into the sump and it prevents the siphon.

That is exactly what I did on my return lines to prevent a siphon. The holes work well just make sure they don’t get plugged with algae at any point. I run a small brush through mine periodically to make sure they stay open.

 

[Gtinnel]

I will look into this over flow box. :)

I’ve never used that style personally just using it as an example. The last hob overflow that I used had the standard siphon tube with the pump connected to it. That’s been well over a decade ago.

 

[Dav2996]

I’ve never used that style personally just using it as an example. The last hob overflow that I used had the standard siphon tube with the pump connected to it. That’s been well over a decade ago.

I have seen CPR which required pump and seen people not use those and others disagree. I have read. A lot of mixed things and trying to see if there is a clear winner. I do have battery back ups that can last my mp10 75 hours. Maybe could hook it up to somthing like that for good measure. I read people connect somthing to the apex that would shut off the return if there was an issue.

 

[Gtinnel]

I have seen CPR which required pump and seen people not use those and others disagree. I have read. A lot of mixed things and trying to see if there is a clear winner. I do have battery back ups that can last my mp10 75 hours. Maybe could hook it up to somthing like that for good measure. I read people connect somthing to the apex that would shut off the return if there was an issue.

I don’t have an opinion either way on the cpr since I’ve not used one.
I don’t see any reason the battery backup would be necessary for the aqua lifter pump because you would only want the aqualifter pump running when the return pump was running.
If you have any aquarium controller you could set it up to where the return pump is turned off when a float switch is triggered by the change in water level like suggested by @WVNed

 

[Dav2996]

I don’t have an opinion either way on the cpr since I’ve not used one.
I don’t see any reason the battery backup would be necessary for the aqua lifter pump because you would only want the aqualifter pump running when the return pump was running.
If you have any aquarium controller you could set it up to where the return pump is turned off when a float switch is triggered by the change in water level like suggested by @WVNed

I did some digging and research. I found this and it turns off your pump when the float switch is hit by the water level. So if I loose siphon my return pump won’t over flow my main tank.

http://www.autotopoff.com/index.htm...y7Sau4pn0eCDlAyi7vza9ITB9SPNK_FkaAnhEEALw_wcB

 

[Gtinnel]

I did some digging and research. I found this and it turns off your pump when the float switch is hit by the water level. So if I loose siphon my return pump won’t over flow my main tank.

http://www.autotopoff.com/index.htm...y7Sau4pn0eCDlAyi7vza9ITB9SPNK_FkaAnhEEALw_wcB

Should work the same as a controller would just without having the need for a controller.
You likely wouldn’t have any issue with your overflow losing siphon it’s just that without some form of failsafe it can be bad if it did happen.

 

[Dav2996]

Should work the same as a controller would just without having the need for a controller.

You likely wouldn’t have any issue with your overflow losing siphon it’s just that without some form of failsafe it can be bad if it did happen.

I do not have the apex haha . I use kasa a smart outlet to control stuff.

 

[Gtinnel]

Should work the same as a controller would just without having the need for a controller.

I do not have the apex haha . I use kasa a smart outlet to control stuff.

I use both an apex and a Kasa. Honestly if not for the trident and controlled dosing with the dos I would be disappointed with the apex for what it costs. The kasa power strip and outlets are really nice for the price. I have a bunch of them throughout my house for various things.

 

[hoardingcorals]

Does anyone actually know of someone losing siphon on an eshopps overflow? I had one that I never touched for three years, I never even cleaned it, and I didn’t have an issue with it breaking siphon when I would shut off the return pump. The U-tube openings are always under water so there is no way for enough air to get in to break the siphon.

The ATO/float switch is a good idea, just keep in mind that many ATO systems have a timer to shut off after so many minutes to avoid overfilling. So you would have to make sure to disable that feature.

 

[Gtinnel]

Does anyone actually know of someone losing siphon on an eshopps overflow? I had one that I never touched for three years, I never even cleaned it, and I didn’t have an issue with it breaking siphon when I would shut off the return pump. The U-tube openings are always under water so there is no way for enough air to get in to break the siphon.

The ATO/float switch is a good idea, just keep in mind that many ATO systems have a timer to shut off after so many minutes to avoid overfilling. So you would have to make sure to disable that feature.

I have had it happen on a cheap overflow (I don’t know what the brand was). It wasn’t when the pump was turned off. I didn’t have enough flow going through the U-tube so the little bubbles collected in the tube instead of flowing out the other side. Eventually breaking siphon.
I agree that shutting the return pump off isn’t when an issue happens because there are baffles in the outside box so that the tube is always submerged.

 

[afrokobe]

Apparently they do still make that style of overflow with an aqualifter pump. Here is something similar to what I was describing that’s sold by BRS.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/delu...LJWaWr4CrjcOc8hdXmRssetXFeerFTWAaAk9HEALw_wcB

I would not get the cpr aquatics hob filter. I have read numerous reviews of the pump failing. I would rather go with the eshopps design and just make a habit of cleaning the siphon tube so nothing gets clogged.

I watched this video and I thought it was genius with the flooding the sump part using this setup. Sometimes when power goes out the water siphons from where it’s pumped from back into the sump and it prevents the siphon.

I've done this with my life reef hob overflow. Although if your overflow is clogged, it won't stop your tank from over filling. The only way to prevent that is to do regular maintenance on your siphon u tube and your over flow box to make sure there aren't any obstructions. I've had mine for a few months now and cleaned it once. Albeit I didn't really need to clean, just more for piece of mind.

 

[malacoda]

The simplest and most foolproof method is to...

1) When you first fill the sump during the initial set up, leave enough empty headspace to hold the volume of water drains down the return line when you shut off the sump's return pump. If your sump headspace can hold all of the water that siphons down, the sump will never flood.

2) Place the return pump on some kind of stand so that it is just barely below the water surface when it is running. If your DT has enough headspace to hold the water that gets sent up before the return pump draws air, your DT will never flood. If it doesn't have enough headspace, it will still significantly minimize the amount of water floods out of your DT in the rare event your OF gets blocked.

3) Get OF box that allows you to adjust its position up and down. This will allow you to either increase the headspace in your DT (e.g. lower DT water level a bit ... setting it lower) ... or reduce the amount of water that siphons down to the sump during a power outage (by setting the box a little higher) ... as need to try to satisfy steps 1 and 2.

Bottom line...

'Protective gear' can fail.

And little siphon break holes in return lines easily become clogged.

But, if you can set up the system so that the DT has headspace to hold the excess water it received during an OF blockage ... and the sump has enough headspace to hold the excess water it receives when power is shut off, then it will be physically impossible to ever have a flood.

 

[Dav2996]

i

I would not get the cpr aquatics hob filter. I have read numerous reviews of the pump failing. I would rather go with the eshopps design and just make a habit of cleaning the siphon tube so nothing gets clogged.


I've done this with my life reef hob overflow. Although if your overflow is clogged, it won't stop your tank from over filling. The only way to prevent that is to do regular maintenance on your siphon u tube and your over flow box to make sure there aren't any obstructions. I've had mine for a few months now and cleaned it once. Albeit I didn't really need to clean, just more for piece of mind.

called Bulk Reef Supply for advice on it they recommended CPR it holds siphon without pump. The pump is an extra measure to keep the siphon at all times. Eschopps would fit my tank better though.

 

[Dav2996]

The simplest and most foolproof method is to...

1) When you first fill the sump during the initial set up, leave enough empty headspace to hold the volume of water drains down the return line when you shut off the sump's return pump. If your sump headspace can hold all of the water that siphons down, the sump will never flood.

2) Place the return pump on some kind of stand so that it is just barely below the water surface when it is running. If your DT has enough headspace to hold the water that gets sent up before the return pump draws air, your DT will never flood. If it doesn't have enough headspace, it will still significantly minimize the amount of water floods out of your DT in the rare event your OF gets blocked.

3) Get OF box that allows you to adjust its position up and down. This will allow you to either increase the headspace in your DT (e.g. lower DT water level a bit ... setting it lower) ... or reduce the amount of water that siphons down to the sump during a power outage (by setting the box a little higher) ... as need to try to satisfy steps 1 and 2.

Bottom line...

'Protective gear' can fail.

And little siphon break holes in return lines easily become clogged.

But, if you can set up the system so that the DT has headspace to hold the excess water it received during an OF blockage ... and the sump has enough headspace to hold the excess water it receives when power is shut off, then it will be physically impossible to ever have a flood.

So your saying get an oversized sump or like fill the tank less for an emergency? I rather have protective equipment then nothing.