Alcohol to dissolve fenbendazole?

[ihateSpirorbids]

I have an infestation of coral-boring worms on two of my coral frags; they're currently in quarantine. I am planning to dose fenbendazole as a kill-all solution for the worms, and am willing to accept the risk of coral death if they don't do well with fenben.

Given the standard fenbendazole dose of 0.1 g / 10 gallon, I'll be using .033 g for my 5 gallon quarantine tank (filled 2/3s full). I want to avoid using DMSO given its skin absorption properties, and I saw threads where alcohol (vodka or gin) was used to dissolve the fenbendazole. However no measurements were given.

Does anyone here know is there is a general guideline on how much alcohol to use? If there isn't I'm planning to pour in tiny increments of 1ml until the fenben dissolves. Also would small amounts of alcohol be safe to pour into my 5 gallon (is there a max, ie: if I go above 3ml of alcohol, would that be too much for a 5 gal?)

References:
Some "store" recommended mixing gin here:


Documented attempt with using vodka here, but dosed in a large volume of water:
https://reefbuilders.com/2023/11/01/my-experience-with-fenbendazole/
A "reef chemist" suggests small amounts won't hurt:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/alcohol-safe-for-tanks.864651/post-9449529
But wanted to hear the community's updated thoughts and experiences?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have an infestation of coral-boring worms on two of my coral frags; they're currently in quarantine. I am planning to dose fenbendazole as a kill-all solution for the worms, and am willing to accept the risk of coral death if they don't do well with fenben.

Given the standard fenbendazole dose of 0.1 g / 10 gallon, I'll be using .033 g for my 5 gallon quarantine tank (filled 2/3s full). I want to avoid using DMSO given its skin absorption properties, and I saw threads where alcohol (vodka or gin) was used to dissolve the fenbendazole. However no measurements were given.

Does anyone here know is there is a general guideline on how much alcohol to use? If there isn't I'm planning to pour in tiny increments of 1ml until the fenben dissolves. Also would small amounts of alcohol be safe to pour into my 5 gallon (is there a max, ie: if I go above 3ml of alcohol, would that be too much for a 5 gal?)

References:
Some "store" recommended mixing gin here:


Documented attempt with using vodka here, but dosed in a large volume of water:
https://reefbuilders.com/2023/11/01/my-experience-with-fenbendazole/
A "reef chemist" suggests small amounts won't hurt:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/alcohol-safe-for-tanks.864651/post-9449529
But wanted to hear the community's updated thoughts and experiences?

iTS BEEN A PAST PRACTICE TO DO THIS as its is not very soluble in water but will dilute and dosed at 10 mg per gal but as a pet medication, I have a reluctancy to use and recommend its use.

 

[ihateSpirorbids]

iTS BEEN A PAST PRACTICE TO DO THIS as its is not very soluble in water but will dilute and dosed at 10 mg per gal but as a pet medication, I have a reluctancy to use and recommend its use.

What's the best anti-worm treatment? I've looked around but nothing kills like fenbendazole. Prazi will not work on these worms.

 

[vetteguy53081]

What's the best anti-worm treatment? I've looked around but nothing kills like fenbendazole. Prazi will not work on these worms.

Interceptor widely used.

1. You need the 51-100lb (23mg) plain interceptor (not plus)
2. 1 pill per 100g at a minimum
3. Treat each week for 3 weeks

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I have an infestation of coral-boring worms on two of my coral frags; they're currently in quarantine. I am planning to dose fenbendazole as a kill-all solution for the worms, and am willing to accept the risk of coral death if they don't do well with fenben.

Given the standard fenbendazole dose of 0.1 g / 10 gallon, I'll be using .033 g for my 5 gallon quarantine tank (filled 2/3s full). I want to avoid using DMSO given its skin absorption properties, and I saw threads where alcohol (vodka or gin) was used to dissolve the fenbendazole. However no measurements were given.

Does anyone here know is there is a general guideline on how much alcohol to use? If there isn't I'm planning to pour in tiny increments of 1ml until the fenben dissolves. Also would small amounts of alcohol be safe to pour into my 5 gallon (is there a max, ie: if I go above 3ml of alcohol, would that be too much for a 5 gal?)

References:
Some "store" recommended mixing gin here:


Documented attempt with using vodka here, but dosed in a large volume of water:
https://reefbuilders.com/2023/11/01/my-experience-with-fenbendazole/
A "reef chemist" suggests small amounts won't hurt:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/alcohol-safe-for-tanks.864651/post-9449529
But wanted to hear the community's updated thoughts and experiences?

I've used ethanol to dissolve praziquantel. A quick Google shows that Fenbendazole is also soluble in ethanol. The way you do it is weigh out the amount of fenben you need into a watch glass or similar. Then add small amounts of EtOH, stirring all the time until it fully dissolves. You want to use the least amount of EtOH as possible. You'll also want 80 proof or higher clear spirits. When added to the tank it will likely come right out of solution as a fine precipitate, that's what prazi does. That's o.k., it will still work.

For any long term use, you'll want to add good aeration to the tank though - I've killed fish from using too much EtOH, not from that itself, but from bacterial decomposition a day or two later that will suck the dissolved oxygen out of the water. That should not be an issue with short term dips.

Side note - fenben causes some odd, but severe fish losses, very species specific. Most fish are fine with it, but flashlight fish, catfish, darters and probably some others will show 100% mortality after three days. I have no idea if corals have issues with it or not.

There is no way I'd use DMSO, cool idea but no real aquarium studies on it.

 

[ihateSpirorbids]

I've used ethanol to dissolve praziquantel. A quick Google shows that Fenbendazole is also soluble in ethanol. The way you do it is weigh out the amount of fenben you need into a watch glass or similar. Then add small amounts of EtOH, stirring all the time until it fully dissolves. You want to use the least amount of EtOH as possible. You'll also want 80 proof or higher clear spirits. When added to the tank it will likely come right out of solution as a fine precipitate, that's what prazi does. That's o.k., it will still work.

For any long term use, you'll want to add good aeration to the tank though - I've killed fish from using too much EtOH, not from that itself, but from bacterial decomposition a day or two later that will suck the dissolved oxygen out of the water. That should not be an issue with short term dips.

Side note - fenben causes some odd, but severe fish losses, very species specific. Most fish are fine with it, but flashlight fish, catfish, darters and probably some others will show 100% mortality after three days. I have no idea if corals have issues with it or not.

There is no way I'd use DMSO, cool idea but no real aquarium studies on it.

How long do you think the corals should be treated for these coral boring worms? Is 2-6 hours enough, or full 12 hours?

 

[Minifoot77]

I have ivermectin on hand but haven't tried it yet

 

[Malcontent]

What's the best anti-worm treatment? I've looked around but nothing kills like fenbendazole. Prazi will not work on these worms.

Maybe levamisole? It's much more soluble in water than fenbendazole and also treats nematodes.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

How long do you think the corals should be treated for these coral boring worms? Is 2-6 hours enough, or full 12 hours?

Sorry - I don't know, I've never tried it as a coral dip.

 

[MnFish1]

How long do you think the corals should be treated for these coral boring worms? Is 2-6 hours enough, or full 12 hours?

I think you're making a big mistake - on several points - but - to answer your question - you can go to any liquor store and ask for 'ever clear' - or something equivalent - which is an extremely high percent of alcohol. My concern is you may very well kill more corals with this treatment as compared to the worms you're trying to kill. Hopefully it will work out for you - use the minimum amount of alcohol - and be careful with fembendazole. My experience with this chemical - involves a highly planted discus tank (200+ gallons) - with snails. - Great - all of the snails died - so do 1/2 of the plants. Fembendazole is also used to kill blue clove polyps - I'm not sure there is great evidence that it doesn't kill other soft coral or some hard corals. By the way - what exactly are the worms you're trying to kill doing?

 

[MnFish1]

PS - you will never get rid of those worms using a treatment - without a total guarantee, I will guarantee this plan will may kill or cause more problem than the worms you're trying to eradicate - which are probably not doing much to your tank in the first place

 

[ihateSpirorbids]

PS - you will never get rid of those worms using a treatment - without a total guarantee, I will guarantee this plan will may kill or cause more problem than the worms you're trying to eradicate - which are probably not doing much to your tank in the first place

Could you expand on this? I thought fenbendazole is a kill-all for worms. It seems like fenben will even be absorbed into the rock/coral plug for some time, so whatever worm that has dug deep in the rock will be affected as well. Plan to run carbon for a few months after in a clean quarantine tank after the fenben bath to hopefully absorb it before putting into my main tank.

My corals are all beginner-friendly / cheap ones so I'm willing risk it for science. I once had a massive detritus worm outbreak a few years ago which was a huge pain to remedy (took the entire tank apart and rebuilt it), so I'm just extra careful when putting things in my main now. And when I say massive outbreak, I mean dipping your arm in the tank will get your arm covered by a hundred of them; wrasses didn't eat them at all. :(

The coral boring worms seem to have grown bigger now, their white tubing are now extending out even higher. Here is what they looked like a month ago:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/what-are-these-white-string-things.1081308/

 

[bogner]

Is there any update on this?

 

[MnFish1]

Could you expand on this? I thought fenbendazole is a kill-all for worms. It seems like fenben will even be absorbed into the rock/coral plug for some time, so whatever worm that has dug deep in the rock will be affected as well. Plan to run carbon for a few months after in a clean quarantine tank after the fenben bath to hopefully absorb it before putting into my main tank.

My corals are all beginner-friendly / cheap ones so I'm willing risk it for science. I once had a massive detritus worm outbreak a few years ago which was a huge pain to remedy (took the entire tank apart and rebuilt it), so I'm just extra careful when putting things in my main now. And when I say massive outbreak, I mean dipping your arm in the tank will get your arm covered by a hundred of them; wrasses didn't eat them at all. :(

The coral boring worms seem to have grown bigger now, their white tubing are now extending out even higher. Here is what they looked like a month ago:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/what-are-these-white-string-things.1081308/

It can be difficult to dose correctly - which means there is not a good way to make sure it's going to get into every crevice and kill every worm.

 

[MnFish1]

Is there any update on this?

what update would you like?

 

[bogner]

I’m wanting to get rid of my boring polychaetaes in my tank, I inherited the rock and a lot great benefits but a huge boring population. I also bought a few frags that had them as well, I’m thinking of doing a whole tank treatment. But I do not want to end up like this. I’m in the process of removing all my soft corals, and I was going to try and trap and remove as many snails as possible.

 

[MnFish1]

I’m wanting to get rid of my boring polychaetaes in my tank, I inherited the rock and a lot great benefits but a huge boring population. I also bought a few frags that had them as well, I’m thinking of doing a whole tank treatment. But I do not want to end up like this. I’m in the process of removing all my soft corals, and I was going to try and trap and remove as many snails as possible.

Remember that there may be many more worms in hidden places you might not see with treatment - which can lead to ammonia and other issues - I would watch it carefully if you decide to treat

 

[bogner]

Yeah, I also have ammonia poly filter, maybe it would be worth while to run multiple layers of this too. Only other option would be to restart the whole tank and frag everything and treat in quarantine.

 

[ReefED!]

You could try a heavy duty peroxide dip on the rock

Most things tolerate peroxide very well - better than you’d think - aside from some SPS and other specific things

Peroxide kills polychaetes very fast

I plan to use a combination of peroxide and fenben to eradicate bristleworms as I upgrade to a new system - and then use peroxide to ensure I never have a bristleworm again in my new tank

 

[MnFish1]

You could try a heavy duty peroxide dip on the rock

Most things tolerate peroxide very well - better than you’d think - aside from some SPS and other specific things

Peroxide kills polychaetes very fast

I plan to use a combination of peroxide and fenben to eradicate bristleworms as I upgrade to a new system - and then use peroxide to ensure I never have a bristleworm again in my new tank

Just remember that if you have a heavy load of bristle worms - you can see parameter changes when they die off.