Algae Scrubbers/Refugium's too efficient for my own good, is it right for me, and do I need one?

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Dcal

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I disagree,
Its not promoted as a source of food for your fish. Viable when nutrient levels exceed filtration and maintenance.

I agree with most of your main points,

cheap easy nutrient export, substrate for microfauna populations

but I definitely see how people dosing to support it could be seen as overcomplicating it, however you're able to completely control your levels with very little up to the tank which is comforting to a lot of people
 

Dcal

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Anyone who could keep macroalgae or a refugium in their tank and dosent is just a idiot, more benefits then any other method because it’s completely natural

i strongly disagree there are so many other ways of nutrient export and none work for all tanks meaning there is not a single right way of doing it
 

BeltedCoyote

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Anyone who could keep macroalgae or a refugium in their tank and dosent is just a idiot, more benefits then any other method because it’s completely natural

plenty of people don’t keep macro or a refugium because with the way their system runs running either doesn’t make sense.

doesn’t make them an “idiot”. Means they have a good understanding of their unique system.
 

JCM

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You seem to be under the assumption that coral exclusively feed on this bacteria you're growing in a reactor and nothing else. Can you back this up?

Can you show they aren't eating the pods/bacteria that grow in a refugium?

I've used both extensively and use neither currently. Carbon dosing works well but can absolutely go wrong quickly. I disagree with preaching it to beginners.
 
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tippin.turtle

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Are you trying to say Carbon Dosing is beteer than Algae Scrubbers?
I am saying carbon dosing is better as it serves multiple purposes within the aquarium and is easier to setup and maintain.
I have a refugium and I have a bio pellet reactor. Some who have invested time and money will cling to the advocacy of a refugium's use and will not hear of an relatively older more effective practice.
I'm simply saying carbon dosing is better having used both and it has benefits that macro algae doesn't provide unless your aim is to also feed algae's to your fish.
 

Dcal

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I am saying carbon dosing is better as it serves multiple purposes within the aquarium and is easier to setup and maintain.
I have a refugium and I have a bio pellet reactor. Some who have invested time and money will cling to the advocacy of a refugium's use and will not hear of an relatively older more effective practice.
I'm simply saying carbon dosing is better having used both and it has benefits that macro algae doesn't provide unless your aim is to also feed algae's to your fish.
And you are completely correct in saying this. However for a lot of people, their style of setting up/maintaining is better supplemented with a method non carbon dosing. Doesnt have to be a refugium or macros
 
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tippin.turtle

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plenty of people don’t keep macro or a refugium because with the way their system runs running either doesn’t make sense.

doesn’t make them an “idiot”. Means they have a good understanding of their unique system.
No one here is calling anyone an idiot. This is a discussion on if macro algae's are the "best" way to reduce nitrates and phosphates. I'm saying there is another way with added benefit and that new reefers assume they need macro algae's in order to do this.
I don't believe refugium's are accessible to everyone, especially those with nano aquariums.
I also think they are a band aide for some poorly maintained aquaria or those aquariums lacking effective filtration, like it or not.
 

BeltedCoyote

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No one here is calling anyone an idiot. This is a discussion on if macro algae's are the "best" way to reduce nitrates and phosphates. I'm saying there is another way with added benefit and that new reefers assume they need macro algae's in order to do this.
I don't believe refugium's are accessible to everyone, especially those with nano aquariums.
I also think they are a band aide for some poorly maintained aquaria or those aquariums lacking effective filtration, like it or not.

read the quote I was replying to please
 
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R33fDaddy

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To me it seems like an Algae Scrubber would be the most natural way to handle Nitrates and Phosphates because it closely resembles how the nitrogen cycle is completed in nature. If I get a scrubber I would also feed that Algae to my fish.

Refugiums are also a good way to export nutrients, but personally I don't think I'll have one. To me it seems that a refugium can shorten the life span of equipment in your sump with excess growth of Algae in places you don't want it.

Carbon dosing seems great but also seems like it could go horribly wrong. It's also one more thing I would have to add to make tank that's not occurring naturally.
 

BeltedCoyote

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For what it’s worth I’ll be running a waterfall style ATS on my system.

may have a ‘fuge if space allows but if so it’ll be more like the original meaning of refugium I.e. cryptic dark area serving as a haven for microfauna in my system
 
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tippin.turtle

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To me it seems like an Algae Scrubber would be the most natural way to handle Nitrates and Phosphates because it closely resembles how the nitrogen cycle is completed in nature. If I get a scrubber I would also feed that Algae to my fish.

Refugiums are also a good way to export nutrients, but personally I don't think I'll have one. To me it seems that a refugium can shorten the life span of equipment in your sump with excess growth of Algae in places you don't want it.

Carbon dosing seems great but also seems like it could go horribly wrong. It's also one more thing I would have to add to make tank that's not occurring naturally.
No argument that it's not natural. I just think it's being pushed by the "industry" and believe you're getting more benefit from carbon dosing more so than macro algae's.
I don't believe LED's are all that wonderful either which is why I run T5's. Whole different thread
 

bmeily

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That being said I don’t think I would run my tank without a refuge at least not without a lot more info or an old tank. Also chaeto is a nice home for pods and who knows what else it really does. It’s tried and true. And maybe it is a buffer but prolly not one I want to be without. There will be times in the future when my wife has to manage my tank for months and weeks at a time. And she doesn't reef. I will be starting a new build in the fall and starting from nothing. My next refuge I want to grow some additional things in hopes of my tangs liking something like lettuce and Pom Pom. I think the BRS E-170 has no refugium and only did auto water changes and 2 part. Don’t think it even had a skimmer.
 
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reefinatl

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I agree that once you start dosing to get macro growing something is a miss. I agree the industry really pushes a lot of useless stuff, algae reactors (scrubbers are legit even if overpriced) and pellet reactors among them.

I do think a refugium on a new tank is fine. I had chaeto going a month into my new setup and credit it with really holding back algae blooms but since this isn't my first rodeo I could see things starting and ramp lighting schedule up, a newb might not do that.

I think a refugium with chaeto is a solid fairly low maintenance easy entry point into nutrient control and export. Carbon dosing I've always thought of as more advanced and something really just done on sps heavy systems. Back in the day, pre awesome led grow lights, I feel like it was common to see people bottom out nutrients with vodka dosing much like what happens more frequently now with a refugium.

What do I know though? I'm ramping up a mixes reef with no skimmer. Certainly don't want to trust my opinion.
 
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tippin.turtle

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I agree that once you start dosing to get macro growing something is a miss. I agree the industry really pushes a lot of useless stuff, algae reactors (scrubbers are legit even if overpriced) and pellet reactors among them.

I do think a refugium on a new tank is fine. I had chaeto going a month into my new setup and credit it with really holding back algae blooms but since this isn't my first rodeo I could see things starting and ramp lighting schedule up, a newb might not do that.

I think a refugium with chaeto is a solid fairly low maintenance easy entry point into nutrient control and export. Carbon dosing I've always thought of as more advanced and something really just done on sps heavy systems. Back in the day, pre awesome led grow lights, I feel like it was common to see people bottom out nutrients with vodka dosing much like what happens more frequently now with a refugium.

What do I know though? I'm ramping up a mixes reef with no skimmer. Certainly don't want to trust my opinion.
Carbon dosing utilizing bio pellets has certainly been a "win" for me as I have never had a more successful reef tank than I do now. Part of that success has been nutrient control. I don't have a sand bed or a refugium that collects and harbors detritus. My system I suppose would be considered "ultra clean" by most. I have a 45 gallon refugium that contains two Marine Pure 8x8 ceramic bio blocks and serves as additional tank volume only on my system. I anticipated using chaeto for nutrient control but the need has never presented itself and have found that bio pellets when used in a reactor at the amount appropriate for tank volume is all that is required. Plus I get the added benefit that my corals have bacteria loaded with nitrates and phosphates that can be easily consumed promoting coral growth and health.
I believe macro algae's are hindering more tanks than they are actually helping. Bio pellets are not idea for large systems with heavy bio loads but for the average aquarist certainly an over looked beneficial tool that's easily incorporated to most tanks.
 

Garf

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If the statement about repeating what coral retailers were saying,was directed at me, you couldn’t be more wrong. I actually floated the idea of using algal sugars as a carbon source donkeys years ago, long before any retailers tried it. It’s in this thread somewhere;

 
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tippin.turtle

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You seem to be under the assumption that coral exclusively feed on this bacteria you're growing in a reactor and nothing else. Can you back this up?

Can you show they aren't eating the pods/bacteria that grow in a refugium?

I've used both extensively and use neither currently. Carbon dosing works well but can absolutely go wrong quickly. I disagree with preaching it to beginners.
I did not say that coral feed upon bacteria exclusively. I said that bacteria provide corals with phosphate by consuming the bacteria. This is documented in scientific research under the subject of coral nutrition and metabolic processes essential to coral life. Using bio pellets in the amount appropriate for tank volume is absolutely a safe practice, requires very little effort from the hobbyist, and is simple to maintain; and yes, I would highly recommend this approach to any new hobbyist.
Sorry you disagree.
 
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