All for reef + balling part C?

[Spare time]

Would it make sense to add part C of balling to all for reef? My reason is that I wondered if it could be used to correct the addition of sodium when adding all for reef. I know calcium formate doesn't add sodium chloride, but would this make sense to help counter the addition of sodium in the rest of the things (i.e. magnesium chloride, strontium chloride, etc.). I'd assume I'd dose less, and that this would be dependent on the forms of trace elements added.

 

[rtparty]

My understanding is that part C is there for salinity and ionic balance. All for Reef doesn't have that issue AFAIK. I never saw my salinity rise while using it. I just couldn't ever dial in alkalinity or calcium with it so I quit. Have a ton of it leftover

 

[Sean Clark]

Very interesting question. I do not use A4R but I am interested in the answer.

 

[HuduVudu]

Would it make sense to add part C of balling to all for reef? My reason is that I wondered if it could be used to correct the addition of sodium when adding all for reef. I know calcium formate doesn't add sodium chloride, but would this make sense to help counter the addition of sodium in the rest of the things (i.e. magnesium chloride, strontium chloride, etc.). I'd assume I'd dose less, and that this would be dependent on the forms of trace elements added.

Part C doesn't have sodium.
All for reef doesn't have sodium.

You need a sodium source to balance against the chloride sources.

You would need to use sodium bicarbonate/carbonate + balling C to do it correctly.

Balling is 2 part + plus everything else. That is how it is designed to work.

If you are trying to get Magnesium chloride in you will add Sodium bicarbonate/carbonate in the appropriate ratio. It is different from calcium because calcium is +2 and magnesium is +1. Then you would add the appropriate amount of Part C. It is like a mini version of Balling 2 part dosing if you want to do this type of thing. Potassium is very small and may be irrelevant to mess with because it isn't going to be consumed heavily. So Randy would likely say add the Potassium Chloride in by itself. For me on Potassium I would just get it from water changes if you are worried about it.

 

[Spare time]

Part C doesn't have sodium.
All for reef doesn't have sodium.

You need a sodium source to balance against the chloride sources.

You would need to use sodium bicarbonate/carbonate + balling C to do it correctly.

Balling is 2 part + plus everything else. That is how it is designed to work.

If you are trying to get Magnesium chloride in you will add Sodium bicarbonate/carbonate in the appropriate ratio. It is different from calcium because calcium is +2 and magnesium is +1. Then you would add the appropriate amount of Part C. It is like a mini version of Balling 2 part dosing if you want to do this type of thing. Potassium is very small and may be irrelevant to mess with because it isn't going to be consumed heavily. So Randy would likely say add the Potassium Chloride in by itself. For me on Potassium I would just get it from water changes if you are worried about it.

Don't the magnesium sources and the trace/minor elements add sodium or chloride?


As for potassium, it is pretty heavily consumed in my tank compared to others but I blame it on my refugium. I dose potassium as all for reef does not contain it.


EDIT: Again, apologies for my confusion. I wrote this post in a state of sleep deprivation lol

 

[Spare time]

I guess I should reword mine and say calcium formate doesn't add sodium+chloride not necessartily sodium chloride as sodium carbonate/bicarbonate and calcium chloride are 2 separate things. I realized my wording above was poor but then again I haven't slept in almost a day lol

 

[Sean Clark]

Part C doesn't have sodium.
All for reef doesn't have sodium.

You need a sodium source to balance against the chloride sources.

You would need to use sodium bicarbonate/carbonate + balling C to do it correctly.

Balling is 2 part + plus everything else. That is how it is designed to work.

So wouldn't that just raise alk while raising salinity?

 

[Spare time]

Ok let me clarify what I am asking haha.

I am wondering why part C is not needed, though my reason in the initial post does not make sense now that I look at it. I know that calcium formate will not add the sodium and chloride that ride along with dosing alk and calcium in traditional two part methods, but for all the other elements, how does this add up long term? Wouldn't there be an excess of chloride? Does that even matter? Am I making sense? Why am I still awake right now?

 

[rtparty]

I think you're over thinking this.

All for reef states it will not alter salinity or ionic balance. I find this hard to believe because there is no way every tank out there consumes trace elements in the exact same proportion that is found in AFR. This is the reason I personally don't like it. No way to control each element when using and they've already found it doesn't contain enough iodine. They are adding more at some point.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No, it is undesirable to add any Balling Part C when using All For Reef. It will skew the ionic balance of the seawater away from natural seawater,

it should ONLY be used when dosing sodium bicarbonate/carbonate/hydroxide and calcium chloride.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok let me clarify what I am asking haha.

I am wondering why part C is not needed, though my reason in the initial post does not make sense now that I look at it. I know that calcium formate will not add the sodium and chloride that ride along with dosing alk and calcium in traditional two part methods, but for all the other elements, how does this add up long term? Wouldn't there be an excess of chloride? Does that even matter? Am I making sense? Why am I still awake right now?

We do not know the form of any of the other elements, but even if some contain sodium or chloride (as opposed to magnesium or potassium or sulfate, for example), the amount of those other elements is very small.

There's no inherent reason All For Reef cannot be perfectly balanced, or close to it. Whether it is or not, I do not know.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you are trying to get Magnesium chloride in you will add Sodium bicarbonate/carbonate in the appropriate ratio. It is different from calcium because calcium is +2 and magnesium is +1.

Magnesium is always +2 in seawater and any additives we use.

 

[HuduVudu]

Magnesium is always +2 in seawater and any additives we use.

Was too lazy to look this up ... thank you for the correction.

 

[HuduVudu]

I think you're over thinking this.

All for reef states it will not alter salinity or ionic balance. I find this hard to believe because there is no way every tank out there consumes trace elements in the exact same proportion that is found in AFR. This is the reason I personally don't like it. No way to control each element when using and they've already found it doesn't contain enough iodine. They are adding more at some point.

So what you're saying is each tank is different.