Alright, Lets Hear The Debate... Water Changes Or Nah?

[Reefin Aint Easy]

I have auto water changes running daily via Neptune DOS (10% weekly), but I am only doing it to add trace elements back in for the coral health. I run a mixed reef tank that has low/no nutrients. I have to dose nitrate and phosphate into the tank for the corals to survive (as well as Magnesium, Alkalinity, Calcium).

Lets hear your thoughts on doing water changes or not. Or do you prefer to dose trace elements back in instead of water changes. And lastly, is it most beneficial and/or cost effective to dose or do water changes for the trace elements and coral nutrition/health.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I change 2-3x per year and dose as supplement

 

[Just a Wrasse.]

Both. Beneficial - Both, But Cheap - Water Change

 

[rtparty]

Water changes don't replace trace elements. I've yet to find a salt that has all trace elements let alone elevated levels of those trace elements.

When you stop and critically break down WHY we do water changes, you'll realize they aren't necessary and may even be harmful. I do 3-4 water changes a year and that's to siphon out built up crap and help dilute any toxins that may build up and we can't test for. An ICP test is always done after the water change so I can correct everything the water change is likely to mess up.

As for dosing, I follow the Reef Moonshiners method

 

[Smite]

I dose trace elements. Water changes only if there is some issue with the tank.

costs come more into play the larger the system volume. Salt can get expensive with water changes on a bigger tank.

I prefer the accuracy of testing and correcting. I use the reef moonshiner program for that.

 

[Paleozoic_reefer]

I dose Tropic Marin All-for-Reef and haven't done a major WC in over two years. With that being said every tank is different (size, equipment, export methods, stock, etc.) so one reefers success may be another one's failure. All depends on what your plans are for your reef, in my opinion...

 

[A Young Reefer]

I do both dosing trace elements and water changes .

 

[Chris Spaulding]

I do water changes only about 2 times a year Just to remove some built up areas of gunk or IF I get a bad reading of metals in my tank through ICP testing.
I to follow Reefmoonshiners.

 

[Reefin Aint Easy]

Water changes don't replace trace elements. I've yet to find a salt that has all trace elements let alone elevated levels of those trace elements.

When you stop and critically break down WHY we do water changes, you'll realize they aren't necessary and may even be harmful. I do 3-4 water changes a year and that's to siphon out built up crap and help dilute any toxins that may build up and we can't test for. An ICP test is always done after the water change so I can correct everything the water change is likely to mess up.

As for dosing, I follow the Reef Moonshiners method

I use Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt and this is what's in their salt... This was just taken off their website.



Contains all major- and minor elements in the exact proportions found in tropical sea water.

Major Elements:
Calcium; Chlorine; Magnesium; Potassium; Sodium; Sulfur.



Trace Elements:
Aluminium; Antimony; Arsenic; Barium; Beryllium; Bismuth; Boron; Bromine; Cadmium; Caesium; Carbon; Cerium; Chromium; Cobalt; Copper; Dysprosium; Erbium; Europium; Fluorine; Gadolinium; Gallium; Germanium; Gold; Hafnium; Holmium; Indium; Iodine; Iridium; Iron; Lanthanum; Lead; Lithium; Lutetium; Manganese; Mercury; Molybdenum; Neodymium; Nickel; Niobium; Nitrogen; Osmium; Palladium; Platinum; Praseodymium; Rhenium; Rhodium; Rubidium; Ruthenium; Samarium; Scandium; Selenium; Silicon; Silver; Strontium; Tantalum; Tellurium; Terbium; Thallium; Thorium; Thulium; Tin; Titanium; Tungsten; Vanadium; Ytterbium; Yttrium; Zinc; Zirconium.

 

[rtparty]

I use Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt and this is what's in their salt... This was just taken off their website.



Contains all major- and minor elements in the exact proportions found in tropical sea water.

Major Elements:
Calcium; Chlorine; Magnesium; Potassium; Sodium; Sulfur.



Trace Elements:
Aluminium; Antimony; Arsenic; Barium; Beryllium; Bismuth; Boron; Bromine; Cadmium; Caesium; Carbon; Cerium; Chromium; Cobalt; Copper; Dysprosium; Erbium; Europium; Fluorine; Gadolinium; Gallium; Germanium; Gold; Hafnium; Holmium; Indium; Iodine; Iridium; Iron; Lanthanum; Lead; Lithium; Lutetium; Manganese; Mercury; Molybdenum; Neodymium; Nickel; Niobium; Nitrogen; Osmium; Palladium; Platinum; Praseodymium; Rhenium; Rhodium; Rubidium; Ruthenium; Samarium; Scandium; Selenium; Silicon; Silver; Strontium; Tantalum; Tellurium; Terbium; Thallium; Thorium; Thulium; Tin; Titanium; Tungsten; Vanadium; Ytterbium; Yttrium; Zinc; Zirconium.

I use and like TM Pro salt but the ICP results show they lack some trace elements (that we can test for.) It could be errors in testing but I jot it up to marketing personally. Even then, if the trace elements aren't elevated above what you are trying to keep, they won't be replensihed with small water changes.

If you have 100ppm of part X and your tanks uses 20ppm and then you change 10% of your water with 100ppm water, it leaves you with 82ppm in your water. This is a very crude example but makes the point. Unless you are changing 100% of the water, you aren't getting your tank back to the levels your salt claims to have.

Just remember the two companies that advocate routine water changes are the salt company and the vendor selling the salt. If you want stable, consistent parameters then ICP testing and dosing is your best way to go.

 

[Reefin Aint Easy]

I use and like TM Pro salt but the ICP results show they lack some trace elements (that we can test for.) It could be errors in testing but I jot it up to marketing personally. Even then, if the trace elements aren't elevated above what you are trying to keep, they won't be replensihed with small water changes.

If you have 100ppm of part X and your tanks uses 20ppm and then you change 10% of your water with 100ppm water, it leaves you with 82ppm in your water. This is a very crude example but makes the point. Unless you are changing 100% of the water, you aren't getting your tank back to the levels your salt claims to have.

Just remember the two companies that advocate routine water changes are the salt company and the vendor selling the salt. If you want stable, consistent parameters then ICP testing and dosing is your best way to go.

 

[Forty-Two]

It’s situational.
If I could get away with water changes once a month or less I would but I’m not at that stage of automation or tank maturity yet.

 

[Reefin Aint Easy]

So in a nutshell, water changes are a waste of money. My issue is if I start dosing for all the trace, then I have to test. I hate testing. Everything is 99% automated on my tank for the exact reason I want to be hands off and less maintenance and have stability.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I cannot respond to this poll because it falsely assumes that trace element additions are the justifying reason to do a water change.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

Water changes are a good way to help control certain processes that serve to drive reef aquarium water away from its starting purity. Some things build up in certain situations (organics, certain metals, sodium, chloride, nitrate, phosphate, sulfate, etc.), and some things become depleted (calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, strontium, silica, etc.). Water changes can serve to help correct these imbalances, and in some cases may be the best way to deal with them. Water changes of 15-30% per month (whether carried out once a month, daily or continuously) have been shown in the graphs above to be useful in moderating the drift of these different seawater components from starting levels. For most reef aquaria, I recommend such changes as good aquarium husbandry. In general, the more the better, if carried out appropriately, and if the new salt water is of appropriate quality.

Calcium and alkalinity, being rapidly depleted in most reef aquaria, are not well controlled, or even significantly impacted by such small water changes. In order to maintain them with no other supplements, changes on the order of 30-50% PER DAY would be required. Nevertheless, that option may still be a good choice for very small aquaria, especially if the changes are slow and automatic.

 

[flashsmith]

As an avid saltwater fisherman. Sometimes I have to run for miles to find clean water to fish.You can throw all day in dirty water not get anything. So just based off that practical knowledge water changes should be done.. Fish like clean water..

 

[brahm]

My tanks have always had the best success with weekly water changes. Wish it wasn’t the case but ah well.

 

[hllb]

I do weekly WCs and dose as well, for alk, cal, and trace. Even though I'm able to keep my alk up with dosing, my pH trends downward during the week and doing a WC bumps the pH back up. I'm sure there's some chemistry explanation here, but its easy enough to do a WC and helps keep my nutrients at the right levels too.

 

[rtparty]

As an avid saltwater fisherman. Sometimes I have to run for miles to find clean water to fish.You can throw all day in dirty water not get anything. So just based off that practical knowledge water changes should be done.. Fish like clean water..

This is assuming one can't have "clean water" without water changes.

 

[Reefin Aint Easy]

I cannot respond to this poll because it falsely assumes that trace element additions are the justifying reason to do a water change.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

Water changes are a good way to help control certain processes that serve to drive reef aquarium water away from its starting purity. Some things build up in certain situations (organics, certain metals, sodium, chloride, nitrate, phosphate, sulfate, etc.), and some things become depleted (calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, strontium, silica, etc.). Water changes can serve to help correct these imbalances, and in some cases may be the best way to deal with them. Water changes of 15-30% per month (whether carried out once a month, daily or continuously) have been shown in the graphs above to be useful in moderating the drift of these different seawater components from starting levels. For most reef aquaria, I recommend such changes as good aquarium husbandry. In general, the more the better, if carried out appropriately, and if the new salt water is of appropriate quality.

Calcium and alkalinity, being rapidly depleted in most reef aquaria, are not well controlled, or even significantly impacted by such small water changes. In order to maintain them with no other supplements, changes on the order of 30-50% PER DAY would be required. Nevertheless, that option may still be a good choice for very small aquaria, especially if the changes are slow and automatic.

So this would be safe to assume that my 10% water changes weekly aren't enough to not have to dose trace elements? I would need to dose trace elements as well as do water changes. As stated above, I dose Alk, Mag, Cal, Nitrate and Phosphate right now anyways to keep up with consumption. I was just always under the impression that everyone drove home about weekly water changes to maintain a healthy living reef tank.

 

[adsf430]

I do 20% weekly water changes and dose Alk, Calc, Mag, Red sea colors program, and acropower. The tank is definitely happier with me dosing trace elements, and with the amount of Alk and Calc it sucks up I'm sure water changes aren't enough to replace them.