Ammonia in QT

[Sleepydoc]

Not sure if I should post this here or in the disease treatment or tank emergency forum, but it's mainly a chemistry question, so here I am.

I got a beautiful purple tang about 4 days ago and put it in my QT. The QT was cycled from the last fish I got but had been empty for 2-3 weeks (with the filter running.)

Yesterday I checked the Ammonia level and it was 0.2 mg/L with the Red Sea kit (0.2 total ammonia = 0.02 NH3 per the kit). Today I rechecked the ammonia level and it's up to 0.8 mg/L. The fish appears fine - no changes in behavior, breathing, appetite, etc.

I had used copper safe in the tank previously so I decided check a copper level and it came back as 0.12 with the Hanna checker.

My quandary now is what to do and what to believe. The copper level is low but still measurable, and I'm planning on prophylactically treating with copper, so I'm think that using Prime is a bad idea. I know copper can interfere with ammonia tests (although I'm not sure about the Red Sea kit,) so it's possible that the copper is contributing to the ammonia reading, but the fact that it went up from yesterday to today is concerning. I'm thinking my best course of action will be to do a 50% water change and keep testing until the levels stabilize, then start dosing copper?

 

[Tuffyyyyy]

Seems like you have a good plan

 

[dbl]

If I'm not mistaken the ammonia alert badge isn't effected by copper. You could try that and see if you're still getting a reading.

 

[Sleepydoc]

yes, but I can't find the ammonia alert badge anywhere close by. :/

Something else I thought of - how much ammonia is ok? The standard answer is 'zero,' which is what I've always had, so I've never had to think about it, but if you're in a situation like mine where you can't use Prime and have to balance water changes, treatments, etc, is there any information on 'tolerable' levels of ammonia and or durations?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

yes, but I can't find the ammonia alert badge anywhere close by. :/

Something else I thought of - how much ammonia is ok? The standard answer is 'zero,' which is what I've always had, so I've never had to think about it, but if you're in a situation like mine where you can't use Prime and have to balance water changes, treatments, etc, is there any information on 'tolerable' levels of ammonia and or durations?

Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php

Ammonia Concentration Guidelines

Because ammonia's toxic effects appear at levels significantly below those that are acutely lethal (0.09 to 3.35 ppm NH3-N or 1.3 to 50 ppm total NH4-N at pH 8.2), and because some organisms in a reef aquarium may be more sensitive than the few organisms that have been carefully studied, it is prudent to err on the side of caution when deciding what concentrations of ammonia to allow in a reef aquarium or related system.

My suggestion is to take some sort of corrective action if the total ammonia rises above 0.1 ppm. This suggestion is also made by Stephen Spotte in his authoritative text, Captive Seawater Fishes.6 Values in excess of 0.25 ppm total ammonia may require immediate treatment, preferably involving removal of all delicate (ammonia sensitive) organisms from the water containing the ammonia. Some of the possible actions to take are detailed in the following sections listed below.

 

[Sleepydoc]

Thanks, Randy - That's exactly what I was looking for. FWIW, if you have a mixing station set up and your salt mix has ammonia in it, then your mixing vessel is likely cycled as well, so the issue of ammonia in your salt mix is only relevant if you mix up a batch and immediately add it to the tank.

I got to thinking about the effect of pH on ammonia ionization and toxicity and how shipped fish are somewhat insulated from the effects by the increased CO2 levels acidifying the water. One could theoretically temporarily treat/ameliorate ammonia toxicity by infusing CO2 or some other acidifying reagent, provided you had a way to control it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I got to thinking about the effect of pH on ammonia ionization and toxicity and how shipped fish are somewhat insulated from the effects by the increased CO2 levels acidifying the water. One could theoretically temporarily treat/ameliorate ammonia toxicity by infusing CO2 or some other acidifying reagent, provided you had a way to control it.

Yes, that would work.