Ammonia increasing during tank cycling.

[cb684]

I have been cycling tanks, both saltwater, and freshwater, and had never seen this happening. I have been cycling a new system for a few weeks now. I have been using Dr. Tim's ammonia chloride solution. Every time ammonia falls below 1 mg/L I add some more to get the concentration around 2. I have been testing it with an ammonia test from Hanna Instruments and using strips from Lammote. On January 27th it was 1.99 mg/L, on the 28th 1.46 mg/L, on the 30th 1.99 mg/L, and today (1/31) it was >3.00 mg/L. The system is freshwater, but since I could not see how that would change the rationale I decided to post it here. Plus, I feel that we (reefers) tend to discuss chemistry more in-depth than the freshwater community. What do you guys think?

 

[vetteguy53081]

How long has tank been running? Sounds like anerobic bacteria is doing it’s thing

 

[MnFish1]

I have been cycling tanks, both saltwater, and freshwater, and had never seen this happening. I have been cycling a new system for a few weeks now. I have been using Dr. Tim's ammonia chloride solution. Every time ammonia falls below 1 mg/L I add some more to get the concentration around 2. I have been testing it with an ammonia test from Hanna Instruments and using strips from Lammote. On January 27th it was 1.99 mg/L, on the 28th 1.46 mg/L, on the 30th 1.99 mg/L, and today (1/31) it was >3.00 mg/L. The system is freshwater, but since I could not see how that would change the rationale I decided to post it here. Plus, I feel that we (reefers) tend to discuss chemistry more in-depth than the freshwater community. What do you guys think?

What test are you using. How did you measure the ammonia. If it was with drops. It could be way more than yOu are thinking

 

[cb684]

How long has tank been running? Sounds like anerobic bacteria is doing it’s thing

It is running for 3 to 4 weeks.

 

[cb684]

What test are you using. How did you measure the ammonia. If it was with drops. It could be way more than yOu are thinking

I have been testing it with an ammonia test from Hanna Instruments and using strips from Lamotte. The Hanna test is the LR and uses drops of two reagents.

 

[MnFish1]

I have been testing it with an ammonia test from Hanna Instruments and using strips from Lamotte. The Hanna test is the LR and uses drops of two reagents.

Good thing to know. I would double check with another test. (I'm not totally sure about the Lamotte strips - accuracy) - and according to Hanna - the accuracy is +- 1 ppm. Which does not seem that great?

 

[MnFish1]

How long has tank been running? Sounds like anerobic bacteria is doing it’s thing

I'm curious what in the numbers make you think that?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm curious what in the numbers make you think that?

At the point where it was gradually dropping and jumped back up again
Seems like after 3 days of dropping,

 

[MnFish1]

At the point where it was gradually dropping and jumped back up again
Seems like after 3 days of dropping,

Why would you think anaerobic bacteria would cause that (I'm not trying to argue - I've just never heard it)

 

[vetteguy53081]

Why would you think anaerobic bacteria would cause that (I'm not trying to argue - I've just never heard it)

I’m so sick of spell correct. I bought this smart phone for a reading
I meant nitrifying (which I see phone tried to switch it again)
Nitrifying bacteria which provides natural biological aquarium filtration and are responsible for breaking down organic waste within the tank.

 

[Azedenkae]

Why would you think anaerobic bacteria would cause that (I'm not trying to argue - I've just never heard it)

My only guess would be that they are talking about dissimilatory nitrate reduction to ammonia. That or ammonification, but ammonification is not restricted to anaerobic processes though.

 

[Azedenkae]

I’m so sick of spell correct. I bought this smart phone for a reading
I meant nitrifying (which I see phone tried to switch it again)
Nitrifying bacteria which provides natural biological aquarium filtration and are responsible for breaking down organic waste within the tank.

Erm. In that case no. Nitrifiers (the autotrophic ones, the ones we want anyways) can perform ammonification, but it is assimilatory - the ammonia they can produce from degradation is for their own use, not for the release into the environment. They are also not really responsible for break down of organic waste in the tank. Their usage of organic matter is limited, predominantly to simpler ones that they can take ammonia from. Or ammonium, rather, but anyways.

 

[Dan_P]

I have been cycling tanks, both saltwater, and freshwater, and had never seen this happening. I have been cycling a new system for a few weeks now. I have been using Dr. Tim's ammonia chloride solution. Every time ammonia falls below 1 mg/L I add some more to get the concentration around 2. I have been testing it with an ammonia test from Hanna Instruments and using strips from Lammote. On January 27th it was 1.99 mg/L, on the 28th 1.46 mg/L, on the 30th 1.99 mg/L, and today (1/31) it was >3.00 mg/L. The system is freshwater, but since I could not see how that would change the rationale I decided to post it here. Plus, I feel that we (reefers) tend to discuss chemistry more in-depth than the freshwater community. What do you guys think?

Is this what you are saying…

You have a new system that you are cycling by adding ammonium chloride. Did you add bottle bacteria first? And you started dosing and redosing ammonium chloride some weeks ago when along comes Jan 27 and the system is no longer is consuming ammonium but rather the concentration is bouncing around.

 

[cb684]

Is this what you are saying…

You have a new system that you are cycling by adding ammonium chloride. Did you add bottle bacteria first? And you started dosing and redosing ammonium chloride some weeks ago when along comes Jan 27 and the system is no longer is consuming ammonium but rather the concentration is bouncing around.

Let me give more information that may help interpret what is going on. I started cycling this system on January 8. I did not have ammonia tests at that point. I added enough bacteria for 120 gallons (the system has approximately 210 gallons, temperature 84F). Then I added the recommended dose of ammonium chloride that was supposed to bring ammonia to 2 mg/L. I thought, given the higher temperature that the cycle would happen somewhat fast, so I added ammonia two more times skipping a day between each dose. That is because Dr. Tim's direction on cycling a tank gives the impression that this is how it is going to work. By the way, this is going to be a Sulawesi shrimp system and has lava rock and aragonite substrate and a Fluval FX6 filter.
After about 10 days I thought it was cycled and added a few snails on the system, but quickly noted they were not doing well, so I removed them. At that point, I thought I needed to start testing. On 1/21 I started testing ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

This is what I got:

2/2/2022​

2/1/2022​

1/31/2022​

1/30/2022​

1/28/2022​

1/27/2022​

1/27/2022​

1/26/2022​

1/25/2022​

1/24/2022​

1/23/2022​

1/21/2022

NH4

4.12​

>3

>3

1.99​

1.46​

1.99​

0.81​

1.88​

2.54​

2.66​

0.18​

1.04

NO2

0​

0​

0​

0​

0.25​

0.25​

2.5​

7.5​

>10

NO3

25​

25​

25​

25​

37.5​

25​

17.5​

50​

50

The increases on January 24th and 27th were caused after dosing ammonium chloride. On 1/31 and 2/1 I had an error on the Hanna instrument reader (too high) and that was confirmed by the Lamotte strip. On my last ammonia measurement, I diluted the sample 1:2 with distilled water.

Below you can see the Hanna test, Lamotte strips, and the pipetter I use.

 

[Dan_P]

Let me give more information that may help interpret what is going on. I started cycling this system on January 8. I did not have ammonia tests at that point. I added enough bacteria for 120 gallons (the system has approximately 210 gallons, temperature 84F). Then I added the recommended dose of ammonium chloride that was supposed to bring ammonia to 2 mg/L. I thought, given the higher temperature that the cycle would happen somewhat fast, so I added ammonia two more times skipping a day between each dose. That is because Dr. Tim's direction on cycling a tank gives the impression that this is how it is going to work. By the way, this is going to be a Sulawesi shrimp system and has lava rock and aragonite substrate and a Fluval FX6 filter.
After about 10 days I thought it was cycled and added a few snails on the system, but quickly noted they were not doing well, so I removed them. At that point, I thought I needed to start testing. On 1/21 I started testing ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

This is what I got:

2/2/2022​

2/1/2022​

1/31/2022​

1/30/2022​

1/28/2022​

1/27/2022​

1/27/2022​

1/26/2022​

1/25/2022​

1/24/2022​

1/23/2022​

1/21/2022

NH4

4.12​

>3

>3

1.99​

1.46​

1.99​

0.81​

1.88​

2.54​

2.66​

0.18​

1.04

NO2

0​

0​

0​

0​

0.25​

0.25​

2.5​

7.5​

>10

NO3

25​

25​

25​

25​

37.5​

25​

17.5​

50​

50

The increases on January 24th and 27th were caused after dosing ammonium chloride. On 1/31 and 2/1 I had an error on the Hanna instrument reader (too high) and that was confirmed by the Lamotte strip. On my last ammonia measurement, I diluted the sample 1:2 with distilled water.

Below you can see the Hanna test, Lamotte strips, and the pipetter I use.

This is a much clearer picture of the sequence of events.

We might never figure out why the ammonia concentration seems stuck. If you don’t have a strong reason to continue adding ammonia, stop any further additions. The early data suggests you are cycled already, except for the nasty fact ammonia concentration is high now. I think your system might actually be OK, only needing some extra time for the high ammonia to be processed. Sound too optimistic?

 

[cb684]

This is a much clearer picture of the sequence of events.

We might never figure out why the ammonia concentration seems stuck. If you don’t have a strong reason to continue adding ammonia, stop any further additions. The early data suggests you are cycled already, except for the nasty fact ammonia concentration is high now. I think your system might actually be OK, only needing some extra time for the high ammonia to be processed. Sound too optimistic?

I agree and that is what I am doing. Thanks.