Ammonia levels at 1.0 - 2.0 ppm after Aquariam Move

[cnfarinella]

I am new to the saltwater hobby and I took over a friend of a friend's Red Sea 95 gallon Aquarium. He had the tank for about 10 years with no major issues and some of the fish for 10 years. I had the Tank moved from his house to my house by a professional tank moving service. They had the fish in a bucket (same water from tank), live rock in bucket (same water from the tank). Once the setup was complete it was a full 8 hour day of moving and setting up the tank. Anyways 4 days later all the fish died and the ammonia levels skyrocketed to 2.0 ppm.

In the original setup display was:

- Live Rock
- Sand (threw away because it was filthy)
- fish

Sump included:

- Algae Scrubber
- Protein Skimmer
- Heater
- 2 media reactors

Now it's been a week since I have the tank running ( with no fish) and the ammonia levels haven't dropped, I did 2 20% water changes within a few days, cleaned the entire sump and skimmer, added an entire bottle of beneficial Bacteria within the week.

I just don't know what else to do to get that ammonia level to 0. Do I need to do a larger water change like a 50%? or do I just have to wait out the few weeks since the tank is in a "new syndrome" ?

 

[Eagle_Steve]

I am new to the saltwater hobby and I took over a friend of a friend's Red Sea 95 gallon Aquarium. He had the tank for about 10 years with no major issues and some of the fish for 10 years. I had the Tank moved from his house to my house by a professional tank moving service. They had the fish in a bucket (same water from tank), live rock in bucket (same water from the tank). Once the setup was complete it was a full 8 hour day of moving and setting up the tank. Anyways 4 days later all the fish died and the ammonia levels skyrocketed to 2.0 ppm.

In the original setup display was:

- Live Rock
- Sand (threw away because it was filthy)
- fish

Sump included:

- Algae Scrubber
- Protein Skimmer
- Heater
- 2 media reactors

Now it's been a week since I have the tank running ( with no fish) and the ammonia levels haven't dropped, I did 2 20% water changes within a few days, cleaned the entire sump and skimmer, added an entire bottle of beneficial Bacteria within the week.

I just don't know what else to do to get that ammonia level to 0. Do I need to do a larger water change like a 50%? or do I just have to wait out the few weeks since the tank is in a "new syndrome" ?

More than likely, die off on the rocks. Also, if you used live sand in a bag, there could have been die off in it.

I would suggest some more water changes and just letting it ride out. It will go to 0 once the die off stops and the bacteria catches up.

What are is you nitrite and nitrate at currently? What ammonia test kit are you using? (API can be inaccurate, but can still be used as a gauge it, as it is usually just a slight false positive but registers high levels just fine)

These 2 can help to determine a little more with what might be going on with the tank.

 

[Unitylover]

probably just a die off.

 

[brandon429]

there's no way your test kits for ammonia are correct, and after nh3 conversion which is what we use in reefing, specifically not the initial reading you're seeing, your readings will be in line with thousands and thousands and thousands of false stuck cycle posts on youtube.


for example, post a pic of this tank as it sits now and we can show you how your ammonia is within spec, and that the seven dollar test kit is wrong. live rock transferred will not support a sustained reading, we have digital ammonia tracked threads proving this. the error is on the test kit.

the move might have killed fish, but your ammonia didn't stay risen above 15 minutes after reassembly


I also have several, more than one post where seneye digital ammonia showed .00x ppm nh3 and api was pegged green/alert level/false read for two straight weeks. all sustained ammonia spikes are misreads, all of them, when dealing in live rock. they owe you a refund or at least a partial, for the bad move.

moving around stuff in a tank can overwhelm these cheap kits with issues not yet discovered. when they're tracked digitally, ammonia is always in control.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

there's no way your test kits for ammonia are correct, and after nh3 conversion which is what we use in reefing, specifically not the initial reading you're seeing, your readings will be in line with thousands and thousands and thousands of false stuck cycle posts on youtube.


for example, post a pic of this tank as it sits now and we can show you how your ammonia is within spec, and that the seven dollar test kit is wrong. live rock transferred will not support a sustained reading, we have digital ammonia tracked threads proving this. the error is on the test kit.

So say a bunch of dead micro brittle stars and dead bristle worms in rocks wont cause a spike until they finish decaying?

Not arguing with you, but not all tank transfers go well and if rock was loaded with critters that are dead and decomposing, ammonia will be present until the decomposition stops and the bacteria convert the ammonia to nitrite and so on.

 

[brandon429]

I agree that's possible, but its not found on the false ammonia alert posts and there's no report of dead animals littered.


we are trained, literally trained, by peers to always doubt cycling bac and to never doubt cheap test kits, that's the pattern.

pics will show when posted (predicted, off the false alert patterns)

open water plenty of dilution

no clouding, crashed tanks are clouding they can't support the extra feed input (which will be missing here) and the water goes cloudy from bac in suspension taking on mass numbers


there will be plenty of surface area from rocks that show signs of maturity. the two issues are fish loss, and a cheap test kit relayed as nh4 not nh3. that's the bet

post pics

*Ill link this thread below that shows (digitally, not on cheap kits) that even adding large amounts of cycling ammonia to full reef tanks consumes it in ten mins max.

Does anyone dose ammonia and/or how would one try?

So, after an interesting discussion on nitrate dosing and looking at my Walt Disney coral and seeing it slightly less colorful than I have seen it in others tanks, I have decided I want to learn about and then try dosing ammonia instead of buying 20 damsels. Nitrate additives I see abound and...

www.reef2reef.com

you can get a spike of ammonia, an under ten mins spike, but you can't get a sustained non compliance reading off live rock. I've never seen one verified example in all of reefing. its the test kit missing the nh3 conversion charting. we dont expect reef tanks to be zero, no seneye runs at zero, all reefs keep a nominal degree of free ammonia in conversion process.

plus I have a video of me draining my entire 15 year old reef down to empty for 33 mins straight and then refilled, no loss of benthics.


this transfer was done in water, nothing died except for fish.

 

[Harold999]

Threads like these show that live rock is overrated in the ammonia brakedown proces. Nitrifying bacteria don't like light so they don't grow as much on live rock, more on media in the sump area, glass/inside hoses etcetera. Dark places.

 

[brandon429]

thats false Harold

live rock has all the nitrifiers we need, proven in the sand rinse thread where all sand and tank surfaces are cleaned in tap water and only rocks are left untouched. I’m aware it can be googled that they don’t like light but the rest of the inference is wrong and is undone in literally countless work threads

also in factor here: added bottle bac.


we are trained to doubt bac and accept all posted readings without contest, it’s happening live time.

here is where it happens in full running reefs, with no loss:

Sustained Ammonia spikes are misreads

The reason you think your reef tank can’t control its ammonia is due to false training from old cycling science. That and you don’t own a seneye on the tank in question: if you did, you wouldn’t ever think your ammonia was out of control...

www.reef2reef.com

these links show how we are trained vs reality, seneye is the ref.

 

[cnfarinella]

More than likely, die off on the rocks. Also, if you used live sand in a bag, there could have been die off in it.

I would suggest some more water changes and just letting it ride out. It will go to 0 once the die off stops and the bacteria catches up.

What are is you nitrite and nitrate at currently? What ammonia test kit are you using? (API can be inaccurate, but can still be used as a gauge it, as it is usually just a slight false positive but registers high levels just fine)

These 2 can help to determine a little more with what might be going on with the tank.

So I didn't add any new sand or use the old sand I am doing bare glass, Only sand thats in the tanks is the little amount that came off the live rock. The test kit I am using is the API kit. Can test Ammonia, PH, Nitrate etc. My Nitrate levels are perfect according to the test results. The only one that is giving me an issue is the Ammonia.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

So I didn't add any new sand or use the old sand I am doing bare glass, Only sand thats in the tanks is the little amount that came off the live rock. The test kit I am using is the API kit. Can test Ammonia, PH, Nitrate etc. My Nitrate levels are perfect according to the test results. The only one that is giving me an issue is the Ammonia.

Next step is to make sure that all fish remains are removed.

Do you see anything dead in the rocks? Can you take a rock out and swish it around in some old tank water to see if anything like dead brittle stars or dead bristleworms come out?

Lets just say that the ammonia test is testing correctly, we need to find the source. If nothing dead comes out, then we can look at the test kit.

Very quick to just swish a rock in some old tank water to see if crud or dead stuff comes out.

 

[brandon429]

And now you know it’s false cnfarinella.

see these fifty pages of moves

only the rocks had bacteria. We never dosed bottle bac, your ammonia is fine, you have a false alert reading. The tests you’re using are the worst in reefing, see any api poll

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

post pics of your reef tank, to check against predictions and our fifty pages of move logs.

 

[Harold999]

thats false Harold

live rock has all the nitrifiers we need,

My point is, they don't like light. If you take all the rock out and put them back in the tank upside down (what first were shadowed parts now in the light and vice versa) and turn bright lights on, you're commiting a masacre.

 

[SudzFD]

Most likely, in the move, a lot of trapped organic material, most likely in the sand bed, was released into the water. This in addition to some possible die off in the live rock, caused an ammonia spike that your biological filtration was not prepared for. You said you replaced the sand since it was filthy. Second theory, but similar, would be that a substantial amount of beneficial bacteria was removed from the sand bed and that coupled with the addition of excess waste caused an ammonia spike.

in an aquarium, every surface becomes filled with beneficial bacteria. Some more than others, but people underestimate how much surface area is on all those grains of sand for bacteria to colonize.

at the end of the day it’s a sad lesson learned, but I would monitor the tank for cycling as if it was a new tank and then add new fish after the cycle completes.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

And now you know it’s false.

see these fifty pages of moves

only the rocks had bacteria. We never dosed bottle bac, your ammonia is fine, you have a false alert reading. The tests you’re using are the worst in reefing, see any api poll

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

In reference to API, if used correctly, and in date. I have no issues with them.

I pour straight ammonia in to a tank with tons of fish and use that exact test to keep it at a safe level.

Like seriously, straight Austins ammonia into a tank with tons of life and that kit has never let me down.

The best bet would be to have to OP do a quick swish to make sure nothing decaying comes out. Then we can address the test kit if the rocks are clean and wonderful. Would suck to have them go buy fish just to kill them in a painful manner.

Here is a luagh for anyone that thought I was kidding.

 

[Bato367]

Threads like these show that live rock is overrated in the ammonia brakedown proces. Nitrifying bacteria don't like light so they don't grow as much on live rock, more on media in the sump area, glass/inside hoses etcetera. Dark places.

What about inside the minute pore structure of rocks?

 

[cnfarinella]

Next step is to make sure that all fish remains are removed.

Do you see anything dead in the rocks? Can you take a rock out and swish it around in some old tank water to see if anything like dead brittle stars or dead bristleworms come out?

Lets just say that the ammonia test is testing correctly, we need to find the source. If nothing dead comes out, then we can look at the test kit.

Very quick to just swish a rock in some old tank water to see if crud or dead stuff comes I

 

[Bato367]

I am new to the saltwater hobby and I took over a friend of a friend's Red Sea 95 gallon Aquarium. He had the tank for about 10 years with no major issues and some of the fish for 10 years. I had the Tank moved from his house to my house by a professional tank moving service. They had the fish in a bucket (same water from tank), live rock in bucket (same water from the tank). Once the setup was complete it was a full 8 hour day of moving and setting up the tank. Anyways 4 days later all the fish died and the ammonia levels skyrocketed to 2.0 ppm.

In the original setup display was:

- Live Rock
- Sand (threw away because it was filthy)
- fish

Sump included:

- Algae Scrubber
- Protein Skimmer
- Heater
- 2 media reactors

Now it's been a week since I have the tank running ( with no fish) and the ammonia levels haven't dropped, I did 2 20% water changes within a few days, cleaned the entire sump and skimmer, added an entire bottle of beneficial Bacteria within the week.

I just don't know what else to do to get that ammonia level to 0. Do I need to do a larger water change like a 50%? or do I just have to wait out the few weeks since the tank is in a "new syndrome" ?

Moving established tanks will cause an ammonia spike or mini cycle. It’s a lot of disruption to a mini ecosystem. My system went through it. I re-established bacteria with some Brightwell Aquatics MicroBacter 7.

 

[MnFish1]

One simple test - is to just re-confirm your ammonia level with a seachem alert badge. Also - what is your pH? If for some reason your pH changed drastically with the move - then you added new high pH water - that can cause small amounts of ammonia to be big problems

 

[cnfarinella]

Next step is to make sure that all fish remains are removed.

Do you see anything dead in the rocks? Can you take a rock out and swish it around in some old tank water to see if anything like dead brittle stars or dead bristleworms come out?

Lets just say that the ammonia test is testing correctly, we need to find the source. If nothing dead comes out, then we can look at the test kit.

Very quick to just swish a rock in some old tank water to see if crud or dead stuff comes out.

I checked every day after another fish died to make sure nothing was under the rocks. Then once all the fish died I rearranged and checked each rock to make sure nothing was stuck or wedged in between. As far as Brittle Stars or Bristle worms I Can't check now because I am not home but all the time moving the rocks I didn't see anything fall out outside of the sand.

As for the test I tested my tap water to make sure it was accurate and it read my tap water as 0 ppm ammonia so I don't think the test is wrong.

The only thing I could think of that could cause this issue was the sump had a lot of detritus in it and the protein skimmer needed to be cleaned. So I spent all day Saturday thoroughly cleaning all that stuff out .

 

[SudzFD]

I checked every day after another fish died to make sure nothing was under the rocks. Then once all the fish died I rearranged and checked each rock to make sure nothing was stuck or wedged in between. As far as Brittle Stars or Bristle worms I Can't check now because I am not home but all the time moving the rocks I didn't see anything fall out outside of the sand.

As for the test I tested my tap water to make sure it was accurate and it read my tap water as 0 ppm ammonia so I don't think the test is wrong.

The only thing I could think of that could cause this issue was the sump had a lot of detritus in it and the protein skimmer needed to be cleaned. So I spent all day Saturday thoroughly cleaning all that stuff out .

Stop messing around with things. We aren’t looking for large dying fish and star fish, I’m sure you removed all that you saw already. The stuff of concern is the microscopic stuff. It dies too. And there’s LOTS of it. Every sand shuffle, every rock rearrangement, can stir up more microscopic detritus. This coupled with cleaning all of your filtration is the problem. All that stuff you cleaned, was loaded with nitrifying bacteria.

stop fiddling with things. Let the bacteria you still have mature (cycle) and then you should be good to go.

the reason your ammonia is staying elevated is because you keep moving things around and releasing organic waste that it is trying to process.
Don’t touch the tank for a week and then let us know what your readings are.