Ammonia or not to ammonia

[Misha]

My tank is cycling for 3.5 weeks now. I used to dose ammonia. I was dosing to much, I used the seachem ammonia alert as indicator but my LFS tested 5 ppm (oops). I did a 50% waterchange (recommended by my LFS).

I have done some tests today and here are the results:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite 1.6 (yesterday 1.9)
Nitrate 50

My question is: do I need to dose pure ammonia/food pellets (till I have fish) to keep the nitrifying bacteria?
How long will it take to get the nitrite to 0?

 

[sbash]

The nitrites will drop off soon, hard to say exactly.

It would be good to dose about 1ppm, which in your 15 gallon would be just under .1ml of pure ammonia. If you can dose .1 or .2ml of ammonia and still get 0 (zero) on your ammonia test, then you are in good shape!

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

My tank is cycling for 3.5 weeks now. I used to dose ammonia. I was dosing to much, I used the seachem ammonia alert as indicator but my LFS tested 5 ppm (oops). I did a 50% waterchange (recommended by my LFS).

I have done some tests today and here are the results:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite 1.6 (yesterday 1.9)
Nitrate 50

My question is: do I need to dose pure ammonia/food pellets (till I have fish) to keep the nitrifying bacteria?
How long will it take to get the nitrite to 0?

There's two types Ammonia test which are you testing

 

[Misha]

There's two types Ammonia test which are you testing

I test with the Seachem alert badge my LFS used the Jbl if I’m right. The seachem will give a much lower reading but is correct when it’s testing 0.

 

[Misha]

The nitrites will drop off soon, hard to say exactly.

It would be good to dose about 1ppm, which in your 15 gallon would be just under .1ml of pure ammonia. If you can dose .1 or .2ml of ammonia and still get 0 (zero) on your ammonia test, then you are in good shape!

Thanks, and if it does (0 within 24 hours). Do I need to add ammonia until there is fish in the tank?

 

[sbash]

Thanks, and if it does (0 within 24 hours). Do I need to add ammonia until there is fish in the tank?

Yes, I would.

 

[brandon429]

also

of all the rocks we can start with in reefing, half do not need to be cycled, they're ready when you bring them home. the other half does need to cycle, were your rocks dry from the pet store, or wet/live when you brought them home?

thought I would check as there are hundreds of cycling threads where people are trying to cycle rock that was already ready, just checkin
B

 

[Misha]

also

of all the rocks we can start with in reefing, half do not need to be cycled, they're ready when you bring them home. the other half does need to cycle, were your rocks dry from the pet store, or wet/live when you brought them home?

thought I would check as there are hundreds of cycling threads where people are trying to cycle rock that was already ready, just checkin
B

My rocks were dry, so was my sand

 

[brandon429]

good deal

you're still cycled, link below shows why. you've met the duration requirements for cycling, the hydration time, using boosters in any combo.

all tanks cycle by day 30 using any form of bottle bac and ammonia, in any amount, it doesn't have to be exact. The times you were dosing too much sped you up, and you were done then.

*how to get test kits to show the right readings, and why yours doesn't, last page
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/

:)
B

 

[Misha]

good deal

you're still cycled, link below shows why. you've met the duration requirements for cycling, the hydration time, using boosters in any combo.

all tanks cycle by day 30 using any form of bottle bac and ammonia, in any amount, it doesn't have to be exact. The times you were dosing too much sped you up, and you were done then.

*how to get test kits to show the right readings, and why yours doesn't, last page
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/

:)
B

Thanks Brandon!

Guess it’s waiting for the nitrite to drop and then do a big WC to get the nitrate down? Or WC first?

 

[brandon429]

no the basic summary from the thread is this:

nitrite never factors in any marine setting, see links for reasons why its long. doesn't factor. only ammonia does and the known timeframe of anything over 20 days.

you meet the two requirements.

the reason your tests don't confirm is due to testing wastewater vs clean tank water



from the last page, the way to verify cycle completion if you must is not by testing wastewater, its by changing out your tank water for new (zero ammonia guaranteed, no test needed)

then to that new water you dose only the amnt of ammonia it takes to move any increment up on the free ammonia test kit. the first readable increment, stop.

wait 24 hours, retest using that kit, if it moved back down you're proven cycled.

the reason you don't have to do the test is because its already featured in the thread, but if you want to run it, we always collect re proofs for sure.

So, change out all your water for zero ammonia water the cycle is done, we don't need to see test kits to know.

however long it takes your wastewater to balance out is a variation of testing accuracy and time, but your tank will pass all cycling tests right now if you simply start on clean water first. Or you can just change out the water and begin reefing right now, the cycle is complete.

You didn't mention adding bottle bacteria, did you add any?

Nitrifiers still get in anyway, if you didn't, was curious

the badge can't be the ammonia tester has to at least be a titration test kit.

 

[brandon429]

by start, we discuss in the thread its not with fish. that wrecks your disease prevention options right from the start

start=zoanthids and a clean up crew.

the time you add fish is after your disease prevention work/fallow time.

 

[Misha]

no the basic summary from the thread is this:

nitrite never factors in any marine setting, see links for reasons why its long. doesn't factor. only ammonia does and the known timeframe of anything over 20 days.

you meet the two requirements.

the reason your tests don't confirm is due to testing wastewater vs clean tank water



from the last page, the way to verify cycle completion if you must is not by testing wastewater, its by changing out your tank water for new (zero ammonia guaranteed, no test needed)

then to that new water you dose only the amnt of ammonia it takes to move any increment up on the free ammonia test kit. the first readable increment, stop.

wait 24 hours, retest using that kit, if it moved back down you're proven cycled.

the reason you don't have to do the test is because its already featured in the thread, but if you want to run it, we always collect re proofs for sure.

So, change out all your water for zero ammonia water the cycle is done, we don't need to see test kits to know.

however long it takes your wastewater to balance out is a variation of testing accuracy and time, but your tank will pass all cycling tests right now if you simply start on clean water first. Or you can just change out the water and begin reefing right now, the cycle is complete.

You didn't mention adding bottle bacteria, did you add any?

Nitrifiers still get in anyway, if you didn't, was curious

I was reading the thread after my reply.. thanks for the great thread and summary!

Yes I’ve added Seachem Stability and Colombo bacto start

With changing the water you mean a 100% WC?

I wanted to start with zoa’s and gsp from a local reefer nearby so that’s great. I don’t have any signs of algae etc will this be ok for a cuc?

 

[brandon429]

yes and good deal on the bac its solid prediction now.

on the last few pages Dr. Reef who I got to meet in person last weekend ran a very scientific study on how fast bottled bac plate onto dry surfaces, its about 76 hours :)

my 20 day or 30 day requirement seems archaic to them lol, but nine readers right now are steaming I mentioned even that timeframe. see how reefing evolution/social pressure works? ha nice
B

 

[Misha]

yes and good deal on the bac its solid prediction now.

on the last few pages Dr. Reef who I got to meet in person last weekend ran a very scientific study on how fast bottled bac plate onto dry surfaces, its about 76 hours :)

my 20 day or 30 day requirement seems archaic to them lol, but nine readers right now are steaming I mentioned even that timeframe. see how reefing evolution/social pressure works? ha nice
B

Haha yes. And my thinking was: bacteria multiply in x hours, start with 10 you get 20. Start with 1000 you get 2000