Anderson Family Reef - Concrete Aquarium DIY 5K All The Way (Page 33)

[NautiTang]

The good the BAD and the ugly... Highest highs and lowest lows...

I jumped in to start on the rock work last night and noticed that the front panel was pulling away from the silicone in a big way. This made my heart stop. All the great buzz from getting the panels in and removing the bracing (it looked like a giant aquarium finally) after a month (Spec sheet says 21 days for a full cure - I gave it an extra week) of cure time was gone. I have a huge problem.

I started thinking about it and when I picked up the panel from the supplier it had a slight bow in it. I figured that would be ok I could just put it towards the inside and the water pressure would push it outward. Well I did just that and when we put in the 5 supports to hold up the panel we wedged it in there nice and tight. The panel conformed to the channel and was perfectly straight. I guess the 2" material didn't like being restrained (adhesion of the silicone wasn't strong enough) and has proceeded to slowly return to its original shape leaving the silicone behind across almost the whole top edge.

I'm going to let the panel find it's resting place. I will then injection fill the gap, let it dry in place without any bracing and do a water test to check for leaks. Worst case is we take it out and redo the whole thing.

Hind sight the bracing that holds up the bowed panel needed to be loose so the panel could rest in its natural state and let the silicone make up the difference.

This is the best I could come up with after thinking it through and comparing it to the panel on the hallway side that didn't have a bow and has rested perfectly once the bracing was removed. It's silicone bond it still amazing!

I put blue painters tape to mark the separation from last night and will see if it is continuing to move. I will post some pictures of the top seam and a quick video of all the seams on the panel.

Tough blow as I was excited to get into building out the rock work and getting on with the rest of the build.

Oh the joys of our hobby! This is about the time when I really like my old 750 gallon acrylic tank.

I hope i’m wrong about this but, I seem to remember reading somewhere that silicone doesn’t bond well to itself after full cure. I will go look this up and hope I’m m wrong for your sake.

 

[NautiTang]

I would check with the manufacturer’s literature on the type of sealant you are using, my google searching indicates that silicone will not stick to itself. I did find something that says mold making RTV will stick to itself but thats the only thing i found that said that, so to be sure check with the manufacturer. IMO better to fix now than later if you need to. Also if you do pull the panel off i would put spacers (and fully encapsulate with silicone from both air and water sides to minimize the chance of a leak forming) in where the gap exists so it doesn’t flex and stress the seam and the glass itself once submerged in water. The amount of pressure induced on a panel that large even with a low PSI will be a large number when multiplied across the entire area of the panel.

 

[NautiTang]

There will be 2 - 2" Acrylic - 4' x 8' panels

I dont know the water height relative to the top of the panel but assuming the edge of the panel is the top:
-Seawater induces a pressure of .445 psi per foot of depth
-an average depth of 2 feet
-panel size 48”x96”=4608in^2
4608x.445=2,050.56lbs induced on the panel.

I would think that even if you filled the gap with silicone it would still flex somewhat hence my sugestion of a spacers being placed between the panel and the concrete. Don’t take my word for it i would consult an engineer and/or get the panel replaced with a flat one from the supplier. That seems like an obvious quality control issue that you shouldn't be liable for as the consumer.

GL with the resolution, sorry to be the potential bearer of bad news.

 

[NautiTang]

There will be 2 - 2" Acrylic - 4' x 8' panels

I dont know the water height relative to the top of the panel but assuming the edge of the panel is the top:
-Seawater induces a pressure of .445 psi per foot of depth
-an average depth of 2 feet
-panel size 48”x96”=4608in^2
4608x.445x2=4,101.12lbs induced on the panel.

I would think that even if you filled the gap with silicone it would still flex somewhat hence my sugestion of a spacers being placed between the panel and the concrete. Don’t take my word for it i would consult an engineer and/or get the panel replaced with a flat one from the supplier. That seems like an obvious quality control issue that you shouldn't be liable for as the consumer.

GL with the resolution, sorry to be the potential bearer of bad news.

 

[dca22anderson]

I dont know the water height relative to the top of the panel but assuming the edge of the panel is the top:
-Seawater induces a pressure of .445 psi per foot of depth
-an average depth of 2 feet
-panel size 48”x96”=4608in^2
4608x.445=2,050.56lbs induced on the panel.

I would think that even if you filled the gap with silicone it would still flex somewhat hence my sugestion of a spacers being placed between the panel and the concrete. Don’t take my word for it i would consult an engineer and/or get the panel replaced with a flat one from the supplier. That seems like an obvious quality control issue that you shouldn't be liable for as the consumer.

GL with the resolution, sorry to be the potential bearer of bad news.

Thank you for your input! I do agree with you and I’m kind of stuck. Figure I will give it a try before I pull the panel and redo it! Love the feedback!!

 

[dca22anderson]

Made a little more progress on the rock work, now I need to order some more!

 

[VanDalsenReef]

Made a little more progress on the rock work, now I need to order some more!

Other than your main issue the tank and rockwork look stunning

 

[attiland]

Wow wow wow. It is all I can say

 

[mehaffydr]

DUDE!!! that rock work is incredible. It looks just awesome.

Speaking from experience I will tell you getting the panel out will not be easy. Maybe being acrylic and silicone not really bonding to it may make it easier but when I had to pull the front glass from my tank it was incredibly difficult and slow going. I had a pocket in my plywood similar to the pocket in your concrete and its just hard to get in there. I used a razor knife from the inside and just kept cutting and cutting until the silicone came out in slivers te hard thing is the silicone wants to grab the blade so its not easy to pull it through. then from the outside I actually ended up buying a tool made by Dremel used to cut off door trim when your redoing flooring. It worked good but I had glass with the acrylic you would have to be really careful not to scratch it up.

 

[ScottB]

DUDE!!! that rock work is incredible. It looks just awesome.

Speaking from experience I will tell you getting the panel out will not be easy. Maybe being acrylic and silicone not really bonding to it may make it easier but when I had to pull the front glass from my tank it was incredibly difficult and slow going. I had a pocket in my plywood similar to the pocket in your concrete and its just hard to get in there. I used a razor knife from the inside and just kept cutting and cutting until the silicone came out in slivers te hard thing is the silicone wants to grab the blade so its not easy to pull it through. then from the outside I actually ended up buying a tool made by Dremel used to cut off door trim when your redoing flooring. It worked good but I had glass with the acrylic you would have to be really careful not to scratch it up.

You two are cut from similar cloth. Or maybe chainmail. I am not worried about this tank holding water. You are both more patient and persevering than most.

I have the Makita version of that beast. Cuts through anything.

 

[dca22anderson]

DUDE!!! that rock work is incredible. It looks just awesome.

Speaking from experience I will tell you getting the panel out will not be easy. Maybe being acrylic and silicone not really bonding to it may make it easier but when I had to pull the front glass from my tank it was incredibly difficult and slow going. I had a pocket in my plywood similar to the pocket in your concrete and its just hard to get in there. I used a razor knife from the inside and just kept cutting and cutting until the silicone came out in slivers te hard thing is the silicone wants to grab the blade so its not easy to pull it through. then from the outside I actually ended up buying a tool made by Dremel used to cut off door trim when your redoing flooring. It worked good but I had glass with the acrylic you would have to be really careful not to scratch it up.

I hope I can get it to hold without having to redo the whole thing. We will see! Fingers crossed!! That tool is perfect!! Thanks for sharing!!

 

[NautiTang]

Thank you for your input! I do agree with you and I’m kind of stuck. Figure I will give it a try before I pull the panel and redo it! Love the feedback!!

Well i hope for the best but my fear is that the 2 layers of silicone will blow out similar to if you were to leave your oil filter on your car and also put a new one one, this happened to a friend of mine, the shop had to replace his engine. Do you at least plan to make a full seal all the way from the concrete to the glass on both the inside and outside?

Love the progress you're making BTW the scape is coming out awesome, sorry to be such a Debbie downer haha.

 

[ScottB]

Well i hope for the best but my fear is that the 2 layers of silicone will blow out similar to if you were to leave your oil filter on your car and also put a new one one, this happened to a friend of mine, the shop had to replace his engine. Do you at least plan to make a full seal all the way from the concrete to the glass on both the inside and outside?

Love the progress you're making BTW the scape is coming out awesome, sorry to be such a Debbie downer haha.

Surely there are some pictures of this. Not like it is something that happens everyday. Share them please. Might be constructive.

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

Crap!!! I feel that you need to explore your option of getting a flat panel and redoing all silicon. You are in the home stretch, and it will be a massive amount of work and headache to fix this and clean up the mess in a year of running. I can't wait to see it filled. If this becomes an issue in 12 to 18 months it will cost tons of $$. House repairs, lost livestock, draining the tank, repairs and starting over. Good luck.

 

[NautiTang]

Surely there are some pictures of this. Not like it is something that happens everyday. Share them please. Might be constructive.

I’m not sure what you are asking for pictures of. My buddies double gasket oil filter, blown engine that happened 10 years ago? No I don’t have pictures of that. The silicone thing is all suggestions, I personally would remove the panel and try to get the manufacturer/supplier replace it since they provided a defective product. In theory I think the pressure of the water will keep the glass pane against the concrete if an additional layer is placed on both sides but there is some doubt so for the peace of mind it would be worth moving the timeline to the right however long it takes to get a replacement or just remove and redo, thats my .02.

@dca22anderson again sorry for reiterating my negative thoughts. I know you’re a big boy, just responding, and best of wishes on this massive project. As much as I want to see this mamma jamma wet i’n sure you want it probably 10 times more. Hmmm… there’s a joke in there somewhere…

 

[alain Bouchard]

Im no pro, but I do believe it will be good. Its only the top of the glass pane, so pressure of water shouldnt be the same as if it was on bottom or side.

 

[dca22anderson]

Thank for all the feedback! I am concerned too!

If it was a side seam or for sure the bottom seam I would be pulling it out and redoing it. The panel has remained in the same state without pulling away any more since last week which is great news.

Before I go through the effort of removing the panel I will reseal the top portion, basically a 7 foot seam (which is sealed and not sealed off and on the whole 7") from the outside in. I am encouraged that the silicone attached to the 2" panel edge is still perfect. I can't really see if it is still sealed to the wall and tray up top. Once I reseal that I will do the water test and see what happens.

I have talked to a few folks who are in the camp of the silicone acting as a gasket rather than an adhesive to acrylic. If that is true then the filling of the cavity may work great once the water pressure is pushing against it.

What I have been able to do is work on the rock work and feel I have a pretty good base to work from. Here is the most recent rendition:


That's a 6' ladder in there for reference. Front pillars are 4'+, back are 6'+ in height...

 

[dca22anderson]

I am planning on running a mixed reef with SPS on top of the rock, LPS just lower than that on the sides of the pillars and softies everywhere else. I need to be able to walk in front of the rock work to clean the viewing panels. I left a channel open down the middle of the "U" to work on the inside of the stack and back wall. Once I get the overflow installed I will be able to ramp/slope the rock up to the bottom of that and should be done for the most part until I start adding corals down the road.

 

[walloutlet]

Quick question/thought on the rock work and trying to build upon what is already a great idea and working out nicely for you. Was thinking about detritus and dead spots that may get created inside the hollow spaces created by the crates.

Would it make sense to install some piping inside the crates that could be connected to a closed loop system so that there is either some water intake or output to keep those hard to reach areas clean? Or would the maintenance of those pipes in the long run be more difficult than the potential problem they would be attempting to solve, thoughts?

Or if nothing else, might provide you with some nice camouflage on a closed loop system that you could really fine tune once the corals start to grow out. Depending on how or where you placed the outputs.

Possibly just over engineering this in my head, I tend to do that. LOL But if there is space available in the aquarium there is probably a good use for it.

Continue the great work, love being able to follow along on builds like this when the OP puts in the extra effort to update constantly and is extremely interactive.

 

[dca22anderson]

Quick question/thought on the rock work and trying to build upon what is already a great idea and working out nicely for you. Was thinking about detritus and dead spots that may get created inside the hollow spaces created by the crates.

Would it make sense to install some piping inside the crates that could be connected to a closed loop system so that there is either some water intake or output to keep those hard to reach areas clean? Or would the maintenance of those pipes in the long run be more difficult than the potential problem they would be attempting to solve, thoughts?

Or if nothing else, might provide you with some nice camouflage on a closed loop system that you could really fine tune once the corals start to grow out. Depending on how or where you placed the outputs.

Possibly just over engineering this in my head, I tend to do that. LOL But if there is space available in the aquarium there is probably a good use for it.

Continue the great work, love being able to follow along on builds like this when the OP puts in the extra effort to update constantly and is extremely interactive.

Great question and thoughts!

I agree and want to force water down the middle of the stacks to prevent detritus build up! It may end up being a manual blow out a few times a month if the flow pattern does end up causing dead spots. For now I plan on building the closed loop system to blow down the back wall, across the bottom, up the front panel creating a gyre... Sea-swirls creating random flow from the returns that face back to the overflow with some big cannons flowing down the open channels on a wave maker...

Thanks for thinking this through!! I'll keep you updated on my progress but totally want to keep this detritus free as best I can!!