Andre’s Full blown 300Gallon SPS Reeftank up within a week ;-)
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Fudsey
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By the way, this is what is happening when your Giant Clam is showing you who the boss is in the tank ;Blackeye
OUCH is right ! ! !
OP
OP
Week 11 of my 300DD - Quick
status video, watch in HD ;-)Tank is doing great and Colors keep improving, also I do now see daily growth in many SPS.
I stopped feeding the Corals and stopped any Amino Acids, Vitamins etc. 4 weeks ago and only feed the few fishes I have at the moment with Tetra Flakes.....
This is exactly the phase I was when Hurricane Harvey distracted my exercise to find out the influence on minor trace elements only and its's effects on colors.
Some elements I keep slightly elevated. This was Boron, Bromide, Molybdenum, Fluoride as well as maintaining daily a bit of Iodide, Manganese, Zinc and Bromine with great results. All other standard parameter are in good shape so far.
So I will keep watching the effects of these parameter and how far the colorization goes
At the moment I'm still working on bringing Fluoride back up, all others are where I wanted them to be.
OP
OP
Yeah it’s short. Just to get the idea.
Was trying it with the Canon to make a video but somehow it did not work out as I wanted it :-(
OP
OP
That is full light in the Video. All T5 and all LED at it's peak actually.
But recorded with the cell phone ;Snaphappy
Abhishek
2500 Club Member
Really amazing thread and loved reading it a lot . Interesting perspective on switching off the lights for a day . Do you think it causes no harm to acros ? Did you kept the lights switched off for a complete day ?
\Also, how did you do in tank hydrogen peroxide treatment ?
Regards,
Abhishek
\Also, how did you do in tank hydrogen peroxide treatment ?
Regards,
Abhishek
OP
OP
Well, I had the tank blacked out completely dark for full two days !!!
All you really have to watch out for is the PH not dropping too much.
Also keep ALK stable since it can climb up too far.
All Acros typically look better after a blackout!!!
Watch PH, and if it drops below 7.8..... turn the lights back on, that will instantly raise PH.
The Hydrogen peroxide I'm not sure if this species react to that.
I just give it a shot ;-)
I do 10ml ea 100G twice a day.
So a total of 60ml per day for my 300G tank.
Abhishek
2500 Club Member
Thanks for sharing the process man ! Appreciate it . So when you used H202, I am assuming its like a 3% solution that you buy at Walgreens or CVS ? And 10ml at 100Gallons do not cause any issue with acros ?
Regards,
Abhishek
OP
OP
I use the CVS brand. Not sure if others have other ingredients in it. Watch out for that.
Hydrogen peroxide will basically be gone after 6 hours latest!!! It oxidizes away. However it will cause a chemical reaction causing a compound to increase that I first forgot what it was, and second won't be liked by algaes ;-)
I never saw issues on any Acros with that dosage in my tanks. I know other people go even higher, not sure what the typical directions are for an anti algae treatment, I like only to disturb the Cyano lifecycle.
OP
OP
STN or RTN - Andre's thoughts 
I came across RTN/STN over the years with the following causes. Generally TN occurs when the Corals immune system is weak and it can’t fight any diseaseful attack, or if the environment just became not suitable anymore.
Too many changes at one time
One reason for TN issues is that, even if you have a matured tank and everything seems ok, you just do too many changes and adjustments at the same time. Changing or correcting certain parameter including a new light schedule which is quite different from before, in combination with a new set of wavemaker pumps and the decision to do a large water change at the same time may be enough reason for certain corals to experience TN. It’s just too much change at the end likely weakens the immune system that too many adjustments are going on inside the coral that the stress is simply too much.
Large Water changes can cause correction, however it also is a change in chemistry at a single time.
I personally prefer to do even corrections slowly, adjustment to multiple parameter in case it’s needed I do all very slow, or do make adjustments at different days with each parameter.
The only way to stop TN at this point is to slow down any changes and even corrections. Like in case if ALK is too low due to an equipment failure, just get it back up slowly over a few days. ALK adjustments are a lot of times the reason for TN on corals. Stability in all parameter even on temperature will help to reduce the risk. Keep daily swings low. Dose hourly instead of daily etc.
Bacterial diseases
Unfortunately these are the things we can’t see in the tank mostly, and diseases are more and more the reason for STN bottom up. And there are plenty of bacteria doing that. This goes back to the fact of a good immune system so the coral can be strong enough to resist bacterial infections and diseases. I typically do watch out for stability, introduce strong UV, keep detritus low, avoid stirring up the sand bed etc. whatever helps to keep the disease causing bacteria in it’s place in the tank. Temperature is a big key here to defeat pathogenic bacteria. Keep temperature below 78 for a while, when fighting STN, that helps to reduce their population. Also dose good bacteria products to outcompete the bad bacteria. Stop any Amino acids and coral foods, this typically fuels the bad bacteria rather than helping the coral. One thing I do is then focus on supplementing Vitamin C only in the evening when lights turn off. Vitamin C only seems not to help the pathogens, but helps the corals to gain strength. For example on a 200G tank volume I use buffered Ascorbic Acid daily, and the amount I use is one of these white little spoons you have in the Red Sea Pro test kits for No3 or Ca. I just dissolve that in tank water and pour it into the tank for a few days.
A personal note, I made repeatedly the experience that Kordon Rid Fungus for a week, seems to help the corals immune system while fighting STN/RTN issues. While you fighting bacteria diseases, keep everything as stable as possible and make sure no important trace element is extremely out of whack. More to this subject below ;-)
Fungus and bacteria accumulations
Unfortunately we have plenty of marine and non-marine fungus in our tanks. You typically see white fluffy growing stuff on the bottom or the base on the coral in all kind of different growth forms and densities. Dense white hairy to fluffy can be a sign of a bad fungus you are dealing with.
This fungus attacks the corals and weakens it’s immune system, attacks and kills the tissue etc. It’s a slow but very effective killing process. Tons of reasons why these fungus and bacteria colonies can grow in our tanks, a lot it’s because of chemicals from equipment or the surrounding air fueling these bacteria/fungus organism. Example are room deodorizer and refreshener, that release certain phenols and other substances which will be carried into the tank water through your skimmer and water surface gas exchange.
Help for these you can archive with Kordon Rid Fungus when dealing with a true marine fungus mostly, but you need to likely reduce the organic load in the tank to avoid the fungus from coming back. Ideally is to take the fluffy stuff under a microscope and look at it. On the web you will find plenty of pictures of marine fungus under the microscope. Don’t worry about the species, it’s just important to see if you have a fungus or a bacteria you are dealing with since the treatments are different.
In case it turns out to be a bacterial issue, then tons of biodigest or equivalent bacteria supplements are needed to outcompete non marine bacteria in the tank. In some cases, Hydrogen peroxide treatments helped to get rid of this bacteria. I also would leave out any Aminos during the battle ;-)
Important water parameter out of whack !!!
This is something I came across recently again, while I’m exercising a lot with the effects of minor trace elements on colorization! Long story short, I used a commonly used salt mix for the first fill of my new 300G tank and I was dealing with STN when I got all my corals back after the broken tank.
The corals suffered a bit from multiple tank transfers and water parameter fluctuations.
This of course leads to STN, weak immune system and a mix of coral diseases I did notice when I started the tank and the corals came back.
Even after a few weeks of extreme care and stable parameter I did see waves of STN on certain SPS.
At that point I received my first ICP tests back and I noticed that certain minor trace elements were totally out of whack, and this on a fresh started tank system! I was already wondering about the low Potassium and Magnesium levels of the salt batch I used, however the tank was full now and the only way I did see was to do then correcting these parameter.
So with the first ICP test’s I did see Bromine, Fluorine and other trace elements extremely out of acceptable range. A similar situation I had a year ago when I started to investigate closer the effects on the minor elements on colorization. So already prior the Harvey flood I made my own elements as in the picture that I used to perform corrections. Just recently I redid and added a few more supplements to the next level to be used in a professional manor and I started to correct these elements that were “so out of whack” ;-)
What should I say, a second time coincidence that STN completely stopped and corals started to look much more healthy as they looked before just after bringing these elements back to normal???? Hell, no!
Bromine and Fluoride did have a real influencing factor in my case.
So, I really recommend everyone with issues to do an ICP from Triton or ATI and here and there check your levels and correct as needed. Not saying to chase more numbers in the tank, but at least have a occasional look at it, since you can’t trust that the salt mix you use, has really everything in what it needs.
And simply only correct what is out of whack and keep reefing as before.
Hope that helps many out there a bit.
@Velcro
-Andre
I came across RTN/STN over the years with the following causes. Generally TN occurs when the Corals immune system is weak and it can’t fight any diseaseful attack, or if the environment just became not suitable anymore.
Too many changes at one time
One reason for TN issues is that, even if you have a matured tank and everything seems ok, you just do too many changes and adjustments at the same time. Changing or correcting certain parameter including a new light schedule which is quite different from before, in combination with a new set of wavemaker pumps and the decision to do a large water change at the same time may be enough reason for certain corals to experience TN. It’s just too much change at the end likely weakens the immune system that too many adjustments are going on inside the coral that the stress is simply too much.
Large Water changes can cause correction, however it also is a change in chemistry at a single time.
I personally prefer to do even corrections slowly, adjustment to multiple parameter in case it’s needed I do all very slow, or do make adjustments at different days with each parameter.
The only way to stop TN at this point is to slow down any changes and even corrections. Like in case if ALK is too low due to an equipment failure, just get it back up slowly over a few days. ALK adjustments are a lot of times the reason for TN on corals. Stability in all parameter even on temperature will help to reduce the risk. Keep daily swings low. Dose hourly instead of daily etc.
Bacterial diseases
Unfortunately these are the things we can’t see in the tank mostly, and diseases are more and more the reason for STN bottom up. And there are plenty of bacteria doing that. This goes back to the fact of a good immune system so the coral can be strong enough to resist bacterial infections and diseases. I typically do watch out for stability, introduce strong UV, keep detritus low, avoid stirring up the sand bed etc. whatever helps to keep the disease causing bacteria in it’s place in the tank. Temperature is a big key here to defeat pathogenic bacteria. Keep temperature below 78 for a while, when fighting STN, that helps to reduce their population. Also dose good bacteria products to outcompete the bad bacteria. Stop any Amino acids and coral foods, this typically fuels the bad bacteria rather than helping the coral. One thing I do is then focus on supplementing Vitamin C only in the evening when lights turn off. Vitamin C only seems not to help the pathogens, but helps the corals to gain strength. For example on a 200G tank volume I use buffered Ascorbic Acid daily, and the amount I use is one of these white little spoons you have in the Red Sea Pro test kits for No3 or Ca. I just dissolve that in tank water and pour it into the tank for a few days.
A personal note, I made repeatedly the experience that Kordon Rid Fungus for a week, seems to help the corals immune system while fighting STN/RTN issues. While you fighting bacteria diseases, keep everything as stable as possible and make sure no important trace element is extremely out of whack. More to this subject below ;-)
Fungus and bacteria accumulations
Unfortunately we have plenty of marine and non-marine fungus in our tanks. You typically see white fluffy growing stuff on the bottom or the base on the coral in all kind of different growth forms and densities. Dense white hairy to fluffy can be a sign of a bad fungus you are dealing with.
This fungus attacks the corals and weakens it’s immune system, attacks and kills the tissue etc. It’s a slow but very effective killing process. Tons of reasons why these fungus and bacteria colonies can grow in our tanks, a lot it’s because of chemicals from equipment or the surrounding air fueling these bacteria/fungus organism. Example are room deodorizer and refreshener, that release certain phenols and other substances which will be carried into the tank water through your skimmer and water surface gas exchange.
Help for these you can archive with Kordon Rid Fungus when dealing with a true marine fungus mostly, but you need to likely reduce the organic load in the tank to avoid the fungus from coming back. Ideally is to take the fluffy stuff under a microscope and look at it. On the web you will find plenty of pictures of marine fungus under the microscope. Don’t worry about the species, it’s just important to see if you have a fungus or a bacteria you are dealing with since the treatments are different.
In case it turns out to be a bacterial issue, then tons of biodigest or equivalent bacteria supplements are needed to outcompete non marine bacteria in the tank. In some cases, Hydrogen peroxide treatments helped to get rid of this bacteria. I also would leave out any Aminos during the battle ;-)
Important water parameter out of whack !!!
This is something I came across recently again, while I’m exercising a lot with the effects of minor trace elements on colorization! Long story short, I used a commonly used salt mix for the first fill of my new 300G tank and I was dealing with STN when I got all my corals back after the broken tank.
The corals suffered a bit from multiple tank transfers and water parameter fluctuations.
This of course leads to STN, weak immune system and a mix of coral diseases I did notice when I started the tank and the corals came back.
Even after a few weeks of extreme care and stable parameter I did see waves of STN on certain SPS.
At that point I received my first ICP tests back and I noticed that certain minor trace elements were totally out of whack, and this on a fresh started tank system! I was already wondering about the low Potassium and Magnesium levels of the salt batch I used, however the tank was full now and the only way I did see was to do then correcting these parameter.
So with the first ICP test’s I did see Bromine, Fluorine and other trace elements extremely out of acceptable range. A similar situation I had a year ago when I started to investigate closer the effects on the minor elements on colorization. So already prior the Harvey flood I made my own elements as in the picture that I used to perform corrections. Just recently I redid and added a few more supplements to the next level to be used in a professional manor and I started to correct these elements that were “so out of whack” ;-)
What should I say, a second time coincidence that STN completely stopped and corals started to look much more healthy as they looked before just after bringing these elements back to normal???? Hell, no!
Bromine and Fluoride did have a real influencing factor in my case.
So, I really recommend everyone with issues to do an ICP from Triton or ATI and here and there check your levels and correct as needed. Not saying to chase more numbers in the tank, but at least have a occasional look at it, since you can’t trust that the salt mix you use, has really everything in what it needs.
And simply only correct what is out of whack and keep reefing as before.
Hope that helps many out there a bit.
@Velcro
-Andre
Velcro
2500 Club Member
Thanks a ton. I just ordered a Triton test and will stop daily KZ aminos and phols Xtra special. I was adding these because I am having undetectable NO3 (no pink at all on red Sea test) and 0ppb phosphorous with Hannah checker. My only export is a VERY strong refugium light (120watt Mars hydro) over 10% volume refugium with chaeto. Other than that it's just skimmer and marinepure block. No carbon dosing, no gfo. Fishload is very high and I feed them a lot. Broadcast feed live rotifers several times a week as well.STN or RTN - Andre's thoughts
I came across RTN/STN over the years with the following causes. Generally TN occurs when the Corals immune system is weak and it can’t fight any diseaseful attack, or if the environment just became not suitable anymore.
Too many changes at one time
One reason for TN issues is that, even if you have a matured tank and everything seems ok, you just do too many changes and adjustments at the same time. Changing or correcting certain parameter including a new light schedule which is quite different from before, in combination with a new set of wavemaker pumps and the decision to do a large water change at the same time may be enough reason for certain corals to experience TN. It’s just too much change at the end likely weakens the immune system that too many adjustments are going on inside the coral that the stress is simply too much.
Large Water changes can cause correction, however it also is a change in chemistry at a single time.
I personally prefer to do even corrections slowly, adjustment to multiple parameter in case it’s needed I do all very slow, or do make adjustments at different days with each parameter.
The only way to stop TN at this point is to slow down any changes and even corrections. Like in case if ALK is too low due to an equipment failure, just get it back up slowly over a few days. ALK adjustments are a lot of times the reason for TN on corals. Stability in all parameter even on temperature will help to reduce the risk. Keep daily swings low. Dose hourly instead of daily etc.
Bacterial diseases
Unfortunately these are the things we can’t see in the tank mostly, and diseases are more and more the reason for STN bottom up. And there are plenty of bacteria doing that. This goes back to the fact of a good immune system so the coral can be strong enough to resist bacterial infections and diseases. I typically do watch out for stability, introduce strong UV, keep detritus low, avoid stirring up the sand bed etc. whatever helps to keep the disease causing bacteria in it’s place in the tank. Temperature is a big key here to defeat pathogenic bacteria. Keep temperature below 78 for a while, when fighting STN, that helps to reduce their population. Also dose good bacteria products to outcompete the bad bacteria. Stop any Amino acids and coral foods, this typically fuels the bad bacteria rather than helping the coral. One thing I do is then focus on supplementing Vitamin C only in the evening when lights turn off. Vitamin C only seems not to help the pathogens, but helps the corals to gain strength. For example on a 200G tank volume I use buffered Ascorbic Acid daily, and the amount I use is one of these white little spoons you have in the Red Sea Pro test kits for No3 or Ca. I just dissolve that in tank water and pour it into the tank for a few days.
A personal note, I made repeatedly the experience that Kordon Rid Fungus for a week, seems to help the corals immune system while fighting STN/RTN issues. While you fighting bacteria diseases, keep everything as stable as possible and make sure no important trace element is extremely out of whack. More to this subject below ;-)
Fungus and bacteria accumulations
Unfortunately we have plenty of marine and non-marine fungus in our tanks. You typically see white fluffy growing stuff on the bottom or the base on the coral in all kind of different growth forms and densities. Dense white hairy to fluffy can be a sign of a bad fungus you are dealing with.
This fungus attacks the corals and weakens it’s immune system, attacks and kills the tissue etc. It’s a slow but very effective killing process. Tons of reasons why these fungus and bacteria colonies can grow in our tanks, a lot it’s because of chemicals from equipment or the surrounding air fueling these bacteria/fungus organism. Example are room deodorizer and refreshener, that release certain phenols and other substances which will be carried into the tank water through your skimmer and water surface gas exchange.
Help for these you can archive with Kordon Rid Fungus when dealing with a true marine fungus mostly, but you need to likely reduce the organic load in the tank to avoid the fungus from coming back. Ideally is to take the fluffy stuff under a microscope and look at it. On the web you will find plenty of pictures of marine fungus under the microscope. Don’t worry about the species, it’s just important to see if you have a fungus or a bacteria you are dealing with since the treatments are different.
In case it turns out to be a bacterial issue, then tons of biodigest or equivalent bacteria supplements are needed to outcompete non marine bacteria in the tank. In some cases, Hydrogen peroxide treatments helped to get rid of this bacteria. I also would leave out any Aminos during the battle ;-)
Important water parameter out of whack !!!
This is something I came across recently again, while I’m exercising a lot with the effects of minor trace elements on colorization! Long story short, I used a commonly used salt mix for the first fill of my new 300G tank and I was dealing with STN when I got all my corals back after the broken tank.
The corals suffered a bit from multiple tank transfers and water parameter fluctuations.
This of course leads to STN, weak immune system and a mix of coral diseases I did notice when I started the tank and the corals came back.
Even after a few weeks of extreme care and stable parameter I did see waves of STN on certain SPS.
At that point I received my first ICP tests back and I noticed that certain minor trace elements were totally out of whack, and this on a fresh started tank system! I was already wondering about the low Potassium and Magnesium levels of the salt batch I used, however the tank was full now and the only way I did see was to do then correcting these parameter.
So with the first ICP test’s I did see Bromine, Fluorine and other trace elements extremely out of acceptable range. A similar situation I had a year ago when I started to investigate closer the effects on the minor elements on colorization. So already prior the Harvey flood I made my own elements as in the picture that I used to perform corrections. Just recently I redid and added a few more supplements to the next level to be used in a professional manor and I started to correct these elements that were “so out of whack” ;-)
What should I say, a second time coincidence that STN completely stopped and corals started to look much more healthy as they looked before just after bringing these elements back to normal???? Hell, no!
Bromine and Fluoride did have a real influencing factor in my case.
So, I really recommend everyone with issues to do an ICP from Triton or ATI and here and there check your levels and correct as needed. Not saying to chase more numbers in the tank, but at least have a occasional look at it, since you can’t trust that the salt mix you use, has really everything in what it needs.
And simply only correct what is out of whack and keep reefing as before.
Hope that helps many out there a bit.
@Velcro
-Andre
Also doing automatic 1% daily water changes with aquavitro salinity.
OP
OP
I see, then the Tank starving factor comes in as well ;-)
Watch out for fluffy stuff, stability and buy some buffered ascorbic acid as well adjust tank temperature. Tackle it with slow changes ;-)
Velcro
2500 Club Member
I'd the ascorbic acid just acting as an antioxidant/free radical scavenger? I already run the tank at 78.0, but supposed I could go down a bit. Also, I shoot for 7.0 alk but have had it drop down to 6.5 and even 6.2 once while dialing in the calcium reactor. I thought with my nutrients that shouldn't be a big deal though
OP
OP
Lol, I know the dank Calcium reactor can cause some headache ;-)
When going up to a safe 7.5-8 in ALK, do it slowly to avoid TN progress. Personally would take a week for that. So really slowly.
Vitamin C is also unconfirmed for treating bacterial diseases. Albert Thiel (R.I.P), did do a study and published a treatment with Vitamin C but it disappeared from the web unfortunately. Search it up. I just dose it when dealing with TN, but many enhance their colors with it. Actually I strongly believe the colors are improving only because the coral is becoming more healthy again, but that's just me.
Velcro
2500 Club Member
And what are your thoughts dosing nitrate/phosphate
OP
OP
Velcro, that I dedicated my Reef Guide Part 1 to entirely ;-)
If you have both in non detectable ranges, then you have to supplement both, and make adjustments to the system to avoid maintaining zero nutrients. Unless you run a real Zeo system of course.
najer
Valuable Member
Great write up, I love slow and natural, keep the balance right.
This is the second or third piece I have read about vitamin C, I have done some reading, might try this tomorrow as I have a Lokani slowly letting go at the base.
This is the second or third piece I have read about vitamin C, I have done some reading, might try this tomorrow as I have a Lokani slowly letting go at the base.
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