Andre’s Full blown 300Gallon SPS Reeftank up within a week ;-)
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OP
OP
No you have to get live in now! Snails and hermits!
And some frags. Feed a bit flakes daily as well to feed the bacteria.
You need to add small bioload or the bacteria will die or at least won't populate as desired.
You do bacteria on the first day and then normal dosage every 2 weeks or ideally weekly. So buy the biggest package on Amazon ;-)
Look at the local stores, worse case you use Svedka Vodka. Prost !!! ;-)
OP
OP
@najer
Yeah, found it!!!
PARty time
Did a bit of PARty yesterday with all lights on.
Upper 1/3 is 450-550 par
Center is in the 300 mostly everywhere
Lower 1/3 measured 150-200 mostly
Just to get an idea!
I do test with 4 out of 8 T5 and the readings go as above, minus 100-150!
So the Tank is more on the lower PAR with most SPS.
I run all the T5 6-7 hourss a day, and then additional 4 on LED and 4 T5.
-Andre
HolisticBear
Valuable Member
STN or RTN - Andre's thoughts
I came across RTN/STN over the years with the following causes. Generally TN occurs when the Corals immune system is weak and it can’t fight any diseaseful attack, or if the environment just became not suitable anymore.
Too many changes at one time
One reason for TN issues is that, even if you have a matured tank and everything seems ok, you just do too many changes and adjustments at the same time. Changing or correcting certain parameter including a new light schedule which is quite different from before, in combination with a new set of wavemaker pumps and the decision to do a large water change at the same time may be enough reason for certain corals to experience TN. It’s just too much change at the end likely weakens the immune system that too many adjustments are going on inside the coral that the stress is simply too much.
Large Water changes can cause correction, however it also is a change in chemistry at a single time.
I personally prefer to do even corrections slowly, adjustment to multiple parameter in case it’s needed I do all very slow, or do make adjustments at different days with each parameter.
The only way to stop TN at this point is to slow down any changes and even corrections. Like in case if ALK is too low due to an equipment failure, just get it back up slowly over a few days. ALK adjustments are a lot of times the reason for TN on corals. Stability in all parameter even on temperature will help to reduce the risk. Keep daily swings low. Dose hourly instead of daily etc.
Bacterial diseases
Unfortunately these are the things we can’t see in the tank mostly, and diseases are more and more the reason for STN bottom up. And there are plenty of bacteria doing that. This goes back to the fact of a good immune system so the coral can be strong enough to resist bacterial infections and diseases. I typically do watch out for stability, introduce strong UV, keep detritus low, avoid stirring up the sand bed etc. whatever helps to keep the disease causing bacteria in it’s place in the tank. Temperature is a big key here to defeat pathogenic bacteria. Keep temperature below 78 for a while, when fighting STN, that helps to reduce their population. Also dose good bacteria products to outcompete the bad bacteria. Stop any Amino acids and coral foods, this typically fuels the bad bacteria rather than helping the coral. One thing I do is then focus on supplementing Vitamin C only in the evening when lights turn off. Vitamin C only seems not to help the pathogens, but helps the corals to gain strength. For example on a 200G tank volume I use buffered Ascorbic Acid daily, and the amount I use is one of these white little spoons you have in the Red Sea Pro test kits for No3 or Ca. I just dissolve that in tank water and pour it into the tank for a few days.
A personal note, I made repeatedly the experience that Kordon Rid Fungus for a week, seems to help the corals immune system while fighting STN/RTN issues. While you fighting bacteria diseases, keep everything as stable as possible and make sure no important trace element is extremely out of whack. More to this subject below ;-)
Fungus and bacteria accumulations
Unfortunately we have plenty of marine and non-marine fungus in our tanks. You typically see white fluffy growing stuff on the bottom or the base on the coral in all kind of different growth forms and densities. Dense white hairy to fluffy can be a sign of a bad fungus you are dealing with.
This fungus attacks the corals and weakens it’s immune system, attacks and kills the tissue etc. It’s a slow but very effective killing process. Tons of reasons why these fungus and bacteria colonies can grow in our tanks, a lot it’s because of chemicals from equipment or the surrounding air fueling these bacteria/fungus organism. Example are room deodorizer and refreshener, that release certain phenols and other substances which will be carried into the tank water through your skimmer and water surface gas exchange.
Help for these you can archive with Kordon Rid Fungus when dealing with a true marine fungus mostly, but you need to likely reduce the organic load in the tank to avoid the fungus from coming back. Ideally is to take the fluffy stuff under a microscope and look at it. On the web you will find plenty of pictures of marine fungus under the microscope. Don’t worry about the species, it’s just important to see if you have a fungus or a bacteria you are dealing with since the treatments are different.
In case it turns out to be a bacterial issue, then tons of biodigest or equivalent bacteria supplements are needed to outcompete non marine bacteria in the tank. In some cases, Hydrogen peroxide treatments helped to get rid of this bacteria. I also would leave out any Aminos during the battle ;-)
Important water parameter out of whack !!!
This is something I came across recently again, while I’m exercising a lot with the effects of minor trace elements on colorization! Long story short, I used a commonly used salt mix for the first fill of my new 300G tank and I was dealing with STN when I got all my corals back after the broken tank.
The corals suffered a bit from multiple tank transfers and water parameter fluctuations.
This of course leads to STN, weak immune system and a mix of coral diseases I did notice when I started the tank and the corals came back.
Even after a few weeks of extreme care and stable parameter I did see waves of STN on certain SPS.
At that point I received my first ICP tests back and I noticed that certain minor trace elements were totally out of whack, and this on a fresh started tank system! I was already wondering about the low Potassium and Magnesium levels of the salt batch I used, however the tank was full now and the only way I did see was to do then correcting these parameter.
So with the first ICP test’s I did see Bromine, Fluorine and other trace elements extremely out of acceptable range. A similar situation I had a year ago when I started to investigate closer the effects on the minor elements on colorization. So already prior the Harvey flood I made my own elements as in the picture that I used to perform corrections. Just recently I redid and added a few more supplements to the next level to be used in a professional manor and I started to correct these elements that were “so out of whack” ;-)
What should I say, a second time coincidence that STN completely stopped and corals started to look much more healthy as they looked before just after bringing these elements back to normal???? Hell, no!
Bromine and Fluoride did have a real influencing factor in my case.
So, I really recommend everyone with issues to do an ICP from Triton or ATI and here and there check your levels and correct as needed. Not saying to chase more numbers in the tank, but at least have a occasional look at it, since you can’t trust that the salt mix you use, has really everything in what it needs.
And simply only correct what is out of whack and keep reefing as before.
Hope that helps many out there a bit.
@Velcro
-Andre
Thank you for sharing. This was very insightful
OP
OP
You’re welcome.
Too many people tackle Tissue Necrosis by thinking there’s only one thing missing in the water and it takes tons of money and too long to get the corrections done since it takes a while to find out if you take care of the items one after the other.
Better is to take care of all potential issues at once and be done with it quickly.
J-Dog
Active Member
Hey Andre,
I followed your instructions, but I’m not able to get my cleanup crew into the tank until this weekend. Can I make any adjustments to keep the bacteria populated until then? This is my 3rd day for dosing vodka, should I continue dosing until the snails are in the tank? Or what about adding some food into my filter socks for the bacteria? Thanks again for the help!
I followed your instructions, but I’m not able to get my cleanup crew into the tank until this weekend. Can I make any adjustments to keep the bacteria populated until then? This is my 3rd day for dosing vodka, should I continue dosing until the snails are in the tank? Or what about adding some food into my filter socks for the bacteria? Thanks again for the help!
OP
OP
Yes, do some feeding with flakes or so.
Watch nitrite, ammonia ( both zero) and important the trending of nitrates !!!
Watching the nitrates helps you to identify the cycling. Drop in nitrates means you can increase further the bioload.
If you drop nitrates toward zero, reduce carbon dosing.
OP
OP
So it was also time for a more accurate ICP Test to get the minor trace elements in check
If you followed my recent posts you noticed I stopped feeding and Aminos weeks ago and want to see where I get the colors up to by the Elements I care about mostly.
Here is the summary for the ones that are interesting for me.
Salinity was low I knew that. My Target is going slowly back up to 32-33PSU
Calcium and Potassium were a bit high and do not match my Test kit at home.
My target is typically for both around 425CA and 410Potassium
Bromine is raised to ideal level. This is where I will remain for a while.
Strontium is OK, I will let it slow down to 12
Boron I increased carefully and the results did match the dosage, wasn't sure about the accuracy of the last test. So I will lift it up to 10 now.
Fluoride was great, however I lifted it up to 2ppm. NEVER exceed 2ppm!!!!
Iodine I knew I overdosed at this point in time since I did a maintenance dose instead my daily drops. That again was a no no. Will stick with daily drops now forever!!!
Results were a few white tips and a browned Superman Digitata (Observe this fact).
Barium super low, I went to the forest and brew some of my Moonshiner already.
So this I will get up to 9-10.
Mo bit higher, but ok.
Ni I don't dose, but it's there so no action.
Manganese I do daily maintenance dose dosing, so no action for now.
Be and Cr, I won't touch yet!!
Vanadium I do dose daily a maintenance dose, no action.
Zinc, I do daily maintenance dose dosing, so no action for now.
No3 - well after the blackout, I measured about 10, this measurement actually matched my Nitrate test kit at the day of taking the sample.
Po4 a bit low, from no feeding anymore to the corals
Unwanted stuff not detectable. Pretty good, no reason for a detox ;-)
Not much going on at Andre's reef other then improved growth by correcting certain trace elements that were too low for my taste ;-)
Will do another FTS hopefully this weekend. Colors keep improving still.... wow.
Barium I'm at 10microgram/L now per my calculations, still 4 more to go!!!
Encrusting is much better now.
The growth pattern on Tenuis and other acros improved nicely. Watching a specific Tenuis Acro which I can show in pictures later on the difference in the growth pattern appearance. Fantastic difference!!!
All the other corrections are done as in my previous post mentioned, salinity back up to 33/34psu.
Also I finished further elements and I did start correction dosing on Copper and Cobalt since both were not detectable. With these elements I will do another ATI test a week after dosing to see the depletion within a week (if any). Since these elements are a bit dangerous, high attention need to be given.
Copper I brought up to 0.5micrgram/L and Cobalt up to 0.1microgram/L in theory per calculations with a bit of safety margin.
After dosing Copper to that level slowly into the overflows , all Polyps retracted quickly and came out 30 minutes, actually a bit better than before to me, but that may be wishful thinking, lol. Cobalt dosing to that level did not show any difference right after dosing.
So far so good
Happy Reefing
J-Dog
Active Member
Hey Andre, I’ve got an issue that worries me a bit. I dosed my initial bacteria dose last weekend and have been vodka dosing daily until I can get my CUC into the tank tomorrow. I noticed that since I started using your method my ph has dropped from 8.1 to 7.9....ph does not climb back up when lights come on either. Is this normal or do I have a problem?
OP
OP
Well, I hope you kept up with Alk dosing and measuring?
Check Alk level first.
Also the water should be clear and crisp and not whitish.
You also can stop the vodka in case nitrates have been decreased etc.
What are your parameter?
J-Dog
Active Member
The only parameters I have available are ALK 7.8, CAL 420, and PO4 is at 0 (I will be getting MAG and NO4 test kits tomorrow). I have nothing in the tank still, yet it looks like my ALK is low. I'm using Instant Ocean salt, so my ALK should be around 11.....but that still doesn't explain the sudden drop in ph?
mrpizzaface
Well-Known Member
shouldn't be hard to find i believe Chopin makes a potato vodka
OP
OP
Oh, it does.
The bacteria populated quite good apparently. It was very dangerous to do this without measuring nitrates Sir! Potential tank crashes can happen due to this. However, the increased bacteria consume a lot of alkalinity due their biological waste disposal process! That’s normal and expected. So that’s why you need to watch for Alk. Also basic knowledge you should have is that Alk is the most important ingredient in the Ph! Low Alk, low ph.
So it all makes sense.
Andre
Bpb
2500 Club Member
Andre. I’ve read over your process several times. Want to confirm my plan is sound. In the decently distant future I’ll be upgrading my 90 gallon to a 150. I have the tank, stand, sump, all plumbing, and all rocks.
Rock is mostly Tonga shelf and pukani. Fairly clean. Previously used in a very clean tank (former user was heavy into carbon dosing and phosphate control, so the dried out rock looks as clean as brand new mined rock)
Going to build a scape with cement and have it ready to go. I’ll use new dry sand.
Plan
Build scape
Set up tank
Place rock and sand
Fill tank and sump
Connect flow and skimmer
Dose biodigest (day1) HOW MANY VIALS (based on your 5 vials for your 300 gallons, that means 2-3 for me?)
Dose vodka/vinegar/ammonia
Test alk, ammonia, and nitrate day 2
Dose 2-3 more vials day 2?
Then add fish?
How long after that should I expect acropora to thrive and not have tissue necrosis
I ask because in previous tank builds I seem to have plagues of tissue necrosis until roughly the year mark. I’m still amazed you had acros thriving in the second week. Do I have a correct idea of the process?
Rock is mostly Tonga shelf and pukani. Fairly clean. Previously used in a very clean tank (former user was heavy into carbon dosing and phosphate control, so the dried out rock looks as clean as brand new mined rock)
Going to build a scape with cement and have it ready to go. I’ll use new dry sand.
Plan
Build scape
Set up tank
Place rock and sand
Fill tank and sump
Connect flow and skimmer
Dose biodigest (day1) HOW MANY VIALS (based on your 5 vials for your 300 gallons, that means 2-3 for me?)
Dose vodka/vinegar/ammonia
Test alk, ammonia, and nitrate day 2
Dose 2-3 more vials day 2?
Then add fish?
How long after that should I expect acropora to thrive and not have tissue necrosis
I ask because in previous tank builds I seem to have plagues of tissue necrosis until roughly the year mark. I’m still amazed you had acros thriving in the second week. Do I have a correct idea of the process?
OP
OP
Yes. Do a stock solution by using Soda ash! That gives you the best PH increase!
OP
OP
Get back to you later tonight on that. Looks mostly solid. Do you plan to transfer at one day everything to the new tank or is it a new journey and the old tank will not be used at all?
Lmk, since a tank transfer into a bigger tank is really easy if you know how but a different approach.
Andre
Bpb
2500 Club Member
BEST case scenario I can leave my tank running when I set the new one up. This tank setup will accompany a move to a new house.
Under best scenario I can set the new tank up, use a fish trap to slowly bring each fish over, save my favorite corals, sell the rest. Using all new rocks because my current rocks are riddled with aiptasia, black liver sponge, and discosoma shrooms. More than I can ever hope to control. And I don’t want to have to manage them forever. Algae I can handle. It comes and goes. These do not. They just grow and grow and sting.
WORST case scenario I have to stick my fish in a brute can and put a power head and heater in and that’s where they’ll live till the new tank is ready and the old tank is dismantled upon moving immediately. Either way. The only thing coming over are the fish and a few corals
Under best scenario I can set the new tank up, use a fish trap to slowly bring each fish over, save my favorite corals, sell the rest. Using all new rocks because my current rocks are riddled with aiptasia, black liver sponge, and discosoma shrooms. More than I can ever hope to control. And I don’t want to have to manage them forever. Algae I can handle. It comes and goes. These do not. They just grow and grow and sting.
WORST case scenario I have to stick my fish in a brute can and put a power head and heater in and that’s where they’ll live till the new tank is ready and the old tank is dismantled upon moving immediately. Either way. The only thing coming over are the fish and a few corals
OP
OP
Very nice! Do you know what it was a few days ago???
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