OP
OP
Andre’s Full blown 300Gallon SPS Reeftank up within a week ;-)
- Large Build
- Thread starter PSXerholic
- Start date
- Tagged users None
OP
OP
OP
OP
OP
OP
OP
OP
OP
OP
Update on the Zeolith addition.......
Reactor seems to work fine, No3 is at 1, Po4 still too high for my taste at 0.06, and I keep playing around with the Zeostart carbohydrate source amount and reactor injection.
I got a DOS from Santa, hence I dose Zeostart now through a provision on the reactor inlet straight into the reactor spreaded over the entire day instead of once a day.
Water became nicely crisp by doing that, however I like to get nutrients down a bit more toward the equilibrium ;-)
Reactor seems to work fine, No3 is at 1, Po4 still too high for my taste at 0.06, and I keep playing around with the Zeostart carbohydrate source amount and reactor injection.
I got a DOS from Santa, hence I dose Zeostart now through a provision on the reactor inlet straight into the reactor spreaded over the entire day instead of once a day.
Water became nicely crisp by doing that, however I like to get nutrients down a bit more toward the equilibrium ;-)
marvelousone
Well-Known Member
Can you show a pic of zeolith reactor and how you dose in it.
OP
OP
That 1/4“ tubing is going into a small dilution chamber before being sucked into the reactor!
marvelousone
Well-Known Member
nice thanks
marvelousone
Well-Known Member
where do you like to keep your po4 at.
OP
OP
Well, stable in the 0.06 actually but like to give it another shot in the Ultra low range with Po4 around 0.02 without GFO and without excessive carbohydrates ;-)
marvelousone
Well-Known Member
What are you doing to feed the bacteria. If I understand correctly zeostae is like nopox, a carbon source to remove po4 and nitrate. So what does it do to help the zeolite.
OP
OP
In a nutshell, the Zeostart is a carbon source, yes.
There are generally 2 ways (except some others) to work with carbs and resulting nutrient reduction which is basically overpopulating bacteria to achieve the reduction of nutrients.
One way is to simply feed the carbon source into the tank and populate all the bacteria in the tank and it's substrate everywhere. That works, but the increased carbon is also in the entire tank in increased concentrations. That does not just fertilizes the good boys, it will also improve growth of the bad boys causing bacterial infections on corals, bacteria blooms in the water, reduce the oxygen levels in the water, make the water slightly haze etc. This method is usually the simple addition of carbs to the tank via NoPox, VSV, Vinegar and many other sources folks use.
I like to stay away from these and prefer and follow the second way.
The other way is to use a separated reservoir or container or a reactor where the bacteria population is mostly enclosed and do the job of nutrient reduction separately outside the main water column. It has been also proven that healthy Reeftanks with healthy corals, are usually glance with a very low bacteria count in the water similar to natural reefs.
Soooooo that led me to modify the original Zeo method and misuse it for my intention. The Zeolith has the benefit to allow on a small footprint to host bacteria in large amounts, since it's know to starve tanks from nutrients, beside its limited capability to absorb ammonia for a certain time. Even while Zeolith is saturated and doesn't take up anymore ammonia, it continues to host very effective the required bacteria for No3 and especially for Po4 reduction, which is what I'm after. Probably because the bacteria feed from the media itself but this is complex biology.
Anyways, the media with the hosted bacteria need a carbon source in order to superpopulate inside the reactor, not as much outside. So the carbon source which doesn't last long anyways if dosed into the main tank would feed the reactor less efficient and as well the bacteria in the water column as well. I do therefore inject the carb source, in my case Zeostart directly into the reactor inlet, assuming most will be consumed straight from the bacteria living in the reactor. Additional improvement I got when I started dosing the reactor through the APEX DOS system which is able to dose very small amounts (0.1-0.3ml per dose) every hour instead once or twice a day. I could notice the water clarity improved significantly while nutrients dropped even better ;-)
Reason is apparently that there is much less carb now available in the rest of the tank, and free floating heterotrophic bacteria won't be fed as much as before.
Conclusion and goal is, again, to keep the bacteria count in the main water column to a minimum, reducing the fertilizing of pathogenic bacteria that can cause infections and diseases and overall helps to increase Disolved oxygen.
Oh and the PH is higher and more stable but not much.
Reason I use Zeostart for now is that it's reasonable priced and I spend 5-10 per month for the carbon source on a full SPS 300G system and dosage I need.
The carbon source has a big impact of what bacteria strains you will fertilize and hence very different results on the Po4/No3 reduction ratio.
Not sure if at some point I will switch the carb source to something else if the product and setup is working fine, with no Cyano issues on the long run.
Time will tell.
Another beauty will be if it works out as it looks now, that I will not need any GFO or other Po4 absorbers ;-)
Hope that helps.
"The other way is to use a separated reservoir or container or a reactor where the bacteria population"
I seen this portion of the post and am very interested in setting something like this up. I was thinking about using my dosing unit for small carbon doses throughout the day. I like the idea of the containment.
Please excuse my lack of knowledge that is why I am am asking the questions...
Can any type of reservoir that can bring display water in/out? or do I need a specific type of reactor or would it need to be a specific size?
Is a specific amount of flow required to go through this reservoir?
Can any Bio media be placed in the "reservoir to allow the bacteria population to thrive?
Once the reservoir is set with Media and the dose is set to dose the Carbon source directly into the reservoir. One would just just slowly increase the carbon dose until the bacteria has knocked down the Nitrates/Phosphates to the desired levels?
What are possible downsides once this is set and Nitrates /phosphates are at desired levels?
Can any Apex monitored value be used to warn of any possible mishap? ie PH fluctuation for shut down?
It sounds like I may have unused items with an available dosing head on my doser that can be used for this purpose...
Thank you,
I seen this portion of the post and am very interested in setting something like this up. I was thinking about using my dosing unit for small carbon doses throughout the day. I like the idea of the containment.
Please excuse my lack of knowledge that is why I am am asking the questions...
Can any type of reservoir that can bring display water in/out? or do I need a specific type of reactor or would it need to be a specific size?
Is a specific amount of flow required to go through this reservoir?
Can any Bio media be placed in the "reservoir to allow the bacteria population to thrive?
Once the reservoir is set with Media and the dose is set to dose the Carbon source directly into the reservoir. One would just just slowly increase the carbon dose until the bacteria has knocked down the Nitrates/Phosphates to the desired levels?
What are possible downsides once this is set and Nitrates /phosphates are at desired levels?
Can any Apex monitored value be used to warn of any possible mishap? ie PH fluctuation for shut down?
It sounds like I may have unused items with an available dosing head on my doser that can be used for this purpose...
Thank you,
OP
OP
Great questions !!!
If I would have found a reservoir and media as well the dosing fluid needed to accomplish that, I would likely engrave it in a gold emblem on the front of my Maserati ;-) Last one who did accomplish this goal was Thomas Pohl (Korallenzucht).
So don't take this wrong! But these are the things that the Reefing community is striving for and would be lucky to have it.
But serious now, there are a few Reactors and Reservoirs that do accomplish that in a similar way and hobbyist's who do experimented with a variety of media and systems. Just to name a few is the classic Zeovit reactor, Sulfate reactor, Methanol Racing fuel reactors, SIPORAX Reactors, Bioball reactors etc.
I personally have tried to keep a classic carbohydrate source such as Tumbling and Non-Tumbling Biopellets, Vodka, Vinegar, Honey, Beer, Coke, Cough Syrup, Methanol and Alcohol and mixes of all that as a bacteria fertilizer in tanks and also reactors and sumps.
As media I used SIPORAX POND, Bioballs, Eggcrate cascades, Classic Liverock, Zeolith, Bio Blocks, and some other I probably forgot about.
So the Carb source and the media, which results in which particular bacteria strains will grow and populate, can be extremely different from all these variables.
So a simple sump filled with crushed Liverock or Siporax can be a great carrier for the required bacteria, but brings other problems on the long run such as clogging or nutrient reduction in the undesired ratio. It's extremely complex!
Enclosed reactors do have the advantage of easy low oxygen environment for Nitrate conversion, however usually clog super quick. Hence the Zeoreactor I ended up with, using a vibe function where you flush out excessive mulm few times a day.
Then you have remote 12" deep "Deep Sand Bed" in a sump in dark environment, where you can drip carbs on top with low flow. Problem is for this easy system is then stability as soon the nutrients are gone, then this system struggles and causes issues.
Siporax reactors did work great, but at the end consumed too much ALK and created too much Co2, hence PH was affected to drastic in my setups.
Honestly, but almost no one has this luxury, is a dark reservoir full of Liverock twice to triple the size of the DT, and very decent amount of carbon source. If you look at the huge central Liverock reservoir that Jason Fox uses, it seems it works for him ;-)
I can only to recommend to do some research on Nutrient reactor systems and try to find the right thing for your system, and build and try something!
marvelousone
Well-Known Member
So can I use the zeovit reactor and just do not pump the mum out. As long I don't touch the pumping handle you could consider it a closed reactor. Then I could inject zeostart like you are doing. I just want to say I have read your post 5 times. I learn something every time. Also I read your knowledge so no one gets in trouble. Its has helped my tank by leaps and bounds. I have been fight cyano for over a year. Order bio digest, did what the guide said do and cyano free for 3 weeks now. Corals are growing and getting colors. So thanks to you. You are the man. Now back to the reactor.
OP
OP
The reactor I consider closed since it has an inlet and an outlet, not open to atmosphere ;-)
I'm still lost on the fact that the mulm in the reactor has to be released and to be shaken once a while, so keep doing that with yours as well, but not too much.
The goal is likely only to avoid clogging. I did see great PE by feeding the corals with that bacteria mulm in the evening ;-)
OP
OP
Soooooooo......
And how was your Saturday morning ???
And how was your Saturday morning ???
Man! I need to order another pack from you [emoji16]Soooooooo......
And how was your Saturday morning ???
OP
OP
At the moment I just cut what need to be cut and throw it out as mixed packs ;-)
Had some nice conversations this morning even with a few new guys in the hobby here in H-Town and they seemed impressed, lol
I got to take some time to chat with Greg Hiller soon, day is too short, lol.
Similar threads
