Andre’s Full blown 300Gallon SPS Reeftank up within a week ;-)

[AngryOwl]

Yes Sir, that’s it.
I had like 3 pieces like that I sold that I had to cut off to avoid this to take over the tank, lol.

Bring it high enough to the light and it brings out 5 colors. Really nice when all rims turn yellow ;-)

If you ever need to get rid of it and want to see how tough of a coral it really is... I take donations

 

[PSXerholic]

My kit doesn't measure that high, best guess we came up with was around 1000, all bugs let go in dip but I have never tried it on black worms, corals have all been fine!
I would never try it as a tank treatment but worked for me as a dip.

Sounds interesting and may be a very good solution since I believe the Chloride levels are killing the bugs and since Chloride is effective against almost all Protozoa, this may be a cheap SUPERDIP at least against those.

So tell me, 1000ppm best guess, but I need to know exactly what Product was used to identify what Potassium Chloride is used to calculate the Chloride levels, sort of reverse engineering a Chloride dip ;-)

Also tell me how you prepared this dip and for how long the corals were dipped in the solution.

THX

 

[PSXerholic]

woooo amazing!! question as I am in the same process... how are you attaching the wood to the metal for your stand? I am looking at welding brackets onto my stand right now to make the cabinet attachment easier but like to know what other people are doing

Thanks for sharing !!!

I did cut the board to the outer dimensions of the stand and notched out the squares where the vertical posts are, the bottom board is then just laying on the bottom steel frame. I did take simply caulk to sort of glue it on and to avoid squeaky noises ;-)

Then I framed and caulked a rim to contain potential (for sure) spill water ;-)

 

[PSXerholic]

If you ever need to get rid of it and want to see how tough of a coral it really is... I take donations

Lol, I believe so Well, you know where to find me!
The one on the left I have to cut back the main colony soon pretty significant since it becomes a disturbance

Had no idea, but the PC Rainbow in that size, is officially handled for 1200-1800 dollies.......

 

[LDH]

I did cut the board to the outer dimensions of the stand and notched out the squares where the vertical posts are, the bottom board is then just laying on the bottom steel frame. I did take simply caulk to sort of glue it on and to avoid squeaky noises ;-)

Then I framed and caulked a rim to contain potential (for sure) spill water ;-)

Great thanks!

 

[najer]

Sounds interesting and may be a very good solution since I believe the Chloride levels are killing the bugs and since Chloride is effective against almost all Protozoa, this may be a cheap SUPERDIP at least against those.

So tell me, 1000ppm best guess, but I need to know exactly what Product was used to identify what Potassium Chloride is used to calculate the Chloride levels, sort of reverse engineering a Chloride dip ;-)

Also tell me how you prepared this dip and for how long the corals were dipped in the solution.

THX

I am test challenged unless something intrigues me I did some reading.
My tank water came out at 430 , high side of cool, I used half a spoon of supermarket "low salt", about 50% potassium content in one litre of water, things I read said 1600 was used with no coral issues, just my experience, I was looking for a coral safe dip not a tank treatment!

 

[AngryOwl]

Lol, I believe so Well, you know where to find me!
The one on the left I have to cut back the main colony soon pretty significant since it becomes a disturbance

Had no idea, but the PC Rainbow in that size, is officially handled for 1200-1800 dollies.......

I'll need some super hardy super beginner SPS soon! Hope you can provide such necessities... or maybe you only have all the high end professional stuff now

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I was going to recommend trying melafix as a dip as well, let us know how it works. I wonder if zeovit FWS will help keep the corals a little healthier for the people that have these worms. They look the same as small worms I have seen affect zoanthids.

 

[reef80]

I used Revive at 4x the prescribed strength at not less then 8 mins and it did the job for me...if its the same sluggish looking black bugs that can decimate acros at the speed that is 25x that of AEFW!

 

[UWC]

Long time follower and admirer and not here to “push” our product but our Expel dip knocks black bugs out in seconds and can be used at much stronger doses safely if needed, even with super sensitive smooth skins. We are currently doing some testing on in tank dosages to see what the limit is. If you want me to send you a bottle of the dip to try out so you can see it in action, shoot me a message

 

[PSXerholic]

Long time follower and admirer and not here to “push” our product but our Expel dip knocks black bugs out in seconds and can be used at much stronger doses safely if needed, even with super sensitive smooth skins. We are currently doing some testing on in tank dosages to see what the limit is. If you want me to send you a bottle of the dip to try out so you can see it in action, shoot me a message

Appreciate the offer and will PM you shortly.
Ultimately the solution is a tank treatment but those by nature can only be limited in concentration just to avoid a tank restart which all dips yet can’t be used.

Still on the hunt for an ID and have a few guys checking for it.

Thx again, we give that a try as dip to see where the lethal dosage is for these guys.

Bayer I personally like to avoid.

 

[PSXerholic]

Long time follower and admirer and not here to “push” our product but our Expel dip knocks black bugs out in seconds and can be used at much stronger doses safely if needed, even with super sensitive smooth skins. We are currently doing some testing on in tank dosages to see what the limit is. If you want me to send you a bottle of the dip to try out so you can see it in action, shoot me a message

Jeff, thanks a lot for the offer.
Just received more info on the UWC Coral Expel product (The guys that also make Vibrant ) and I will definitely try this.

You guys mentioned that you breed also black bugs for testing the dip as a potential "Tank Treatment". I believe you have seen the pictures of the Protozoa in my case which these nice animals belong to @Devin Walters .
Can you send me a microscopic picture of yours or at least give me an indication if your species is the same as in our case? That would bring a bit clarity, if there may be multiple different Protozoa floating around in the hobby causing this issue and been known as Black bugs.
Thanks a lot for chiming in ;-)

 

[UWC]

Welcome and sure can If you want to ship us a few of your friends bugs, we’d love to have them for testing.

Right now as far as we’ve seen, there seems to be at least two different varieties of bb’s

The pictures you posted seem to be the most common species with the elongated body. There is another species that has a more rounded body and is almost tick like.

 

[PSXerholic]

Welcome and sure can If you want to ship us a few of your friends bugs, we’d love to have them for testing.

Right now as far as we’ve seen, there seems to be at least two different varieties of bb’s

The pictures you posted seem to be the most common species with the elongated body. There is another species that has a more rounded body and is almost tick like.

Thanks, I was afraid, but on the other side expecting this answer ;-)

I was not able to ID fully the Protozoa species but have a few Biologists looking into it at the moment. The other one you mention and described sounds familiar to seen on pictures, there is less variety if they look like a tick, share a picture if you have one ;-)
It may be this maybe?
You can look up a few Microsopic videos of the Diophrys Protozoa to compare.


Anyways, below is another parasitic Ostracod species I was given where we originally assumed black bugs as well, (normally not parasitic in that family) which caused STN likely from bacterial infection by the biting of this parasite.
It's a box of Pandora that you open when dealing with parasites, lol.
I recommended to perform an Interceptor test and if successful then a tank treatment.
But haven't heard back from the owner, lol.

 

[PSXerholic]

Thanks, I was afraid, but on the other side expecting this answer ;-)

I was not able to ID fully the Protozoa species but have a few Biologists looking into it at the moment. The other one you mention and described sounds familiar to seen on pictures, there is less variety if they look like a tick, share a picture if you have one ;-)
It may be this maybe?
You can look up a few Microsopic videos of the Diophrys Protozoa to compare.


Anyways, below is another parasitic Ostracod species I was given where we originally assumed black bugs as well, (normally not parasitic in that family) which caused STN likely from bacterial infection by the biting of this parasite.
It's a box of Pandora that you open when dealing with parasites, lol.
I recommended to perform an Interceptor test and if successful then a tank treatment.
But haven't heard back from the owner, lol.

Need to upload the Videos of all these to my Channel still ........

 

[Jason1971]

I have been having been battling black bugs for the past 10 months and Melafix does the job for dips and does little or no damage to the sps but higher dosages will knock out ur pods and acro crabs.

I doubt there will be any in tank treatment available to eliminate them as very high dosages will be needed and will most likely kill ur sps. I had tried prazi in high dosages with negative effects losing more than 50% of my acros and these devils still survived till today.

 

[AngryOwl]

Time for me to do some light reading before bed and go back to the beginnings of this thread!

 

[AngryOwl]

Okay that is enough torture, time to rant! I made it through the first 25 pages as a refresher from when I first found this thread and read every single post since. I can only describe my feelings as angry and confused after re-reading ;Hilarious Let me expand on why angry (jealous).

Ok, rather then talking about the bacteria vaccination I just describe what I did:

The (300G) tank was filled up and when almost 3/4 full, I dosed like 3-4 Ampules of Biodigest after I added all the power washed dry rock in it.
Intentionally I did not added any of my previous liverock since that was covered in organic matter from previous uses! I did not want to have too much Bioload in the tank while sort of cycling since I was not sure how much bioload the Nitrate reactor would be able to handle later.


Next morning the tank was almost full of water and started to stink. The debris and waste from the dry rock was still heavy and all the organics started to smell ;-)
So I quickly put the skimmer and a 54W UV unit in addition to the salt/water mixing pump that was running continously.
Skimmer was for mostly aeration and taking out the organic waste.
Later in the evening, the tank was almost clean and the smell almost gone.

That evening the tank was filled and the filter system could start working normally through socks and sump, skimmer back into the sump etc.
At this point I shut down the UV and dosed another 5 vials of Biodigest.
Also I did pour in a shotglass of Vodka/vinegar mix for the bacteria to start working and populating.
That was the initial vaccination.

Next day I measured ammonia and nitrites, with the result of both being zero/non detectable.
For me that was the sign that the normal bio-cycling hasn't started yet. GREAT !!!
So I brought back in my Nitrate reactor and did let it run in bypass. This reactor was running on an Aquaculture grow out battery in a LFS where my corals remained in the meantime after the previous tank broke.
I turned on the vibe of the reactor and let plenty of bacteria and mulm flowing into the display ;-)

Following day I measured all relevant parameter and started with the necessary corrections.
Nitrates was not and Po4 was barely detectable. So I started dosing Nitrates to bring it up to 1ppm-1.5ppm.
This is important to feed the bacteria and keep them alive and make sure the populate in the tank!

In addition I dosed a very tiny bit of Ammonia in order to provide food source to the bacteria of the 1st stage of the nitrogen cycle. Nitrates I dosed already for the bacteria of the 2nd part of the cycle. So I will monitor the Nitrate level now every day to see it doesn't run out and slowly reduces.
Also the elevated Nitrates make sure the SPS do not suffer from ALK burn.

I have 4 of my frags in the tank which are doing great so far ;-)
Hey SPS 1 day after filling.... yiehaaa, lol.
1 JF Rainbow Monti, 1 Green Hispida Monti, 1 Bubble Gum Monti, 1 Mystic Sunset Monti............

Alk turned out to be at 10-10.5 at the moment and the bacteria while populating should consume enough ALK to get it down into a safe range. If not, I will have to bring in more of my montipora and some other robust SPS to consume the ALK before the sensible SPS return to the tank.
I hope the ALK consumption is good enough by just the bacteria work ;-)

Hope that helps.

-Andre

This is an important post and interesting. What I noticed while reading back is you referring to the "cycle" but not in the traditional new cycle we all talk about. When I hear cycle I think ammonia > nitrite > nitrate... but you begin talking immediately and referring to the cycle for nitrate and even started monitoring and correcting it immediately. Then you took care of the traditional cycle. This is fascinating.... What I find appealing and confusing though, is how you only had a small amount of nitrates to begin with.. and in a short period of time, had to begin dosing nitrates with no export method yet on the tank (prior to getting the nitrate reactor, correct me if I'm mistaken). Lastly I find the concept of the nitrate reactor interesting and wondering if this is the true key to the success we see here (among others)... but it was mentioned this reactor came from a well established tank. Do you think the release of the mulm caused the tank to "mature" quicker than a traditional 100% new start up?

Well, there is not much to update at the moment until the tank moves and I can proceed with the build. So some time to spend ;-)

Why do you think this is the case?
It is not too difficult to keep SPS happy, but honestly requires a few (significant) bucks to be spend.

You got to have the Biology in check as a first priority. Means great Bacteria diversity, I use Biodigest btw.
That assumes you have something in place to keep No3 and Po4 detectable and do not starve the tank.
Many people do too much on their tanks.

A good RODI system to make sure good water comes in only, no LFS water etc. unless you test TDS at the time of pickup with a handheld meter.
Decent light, doesn't need to be the best light on the planet.

Automation of supplementing ALK, & CA in any form, no manual dosing, period!
MG can be added weekly manually.
These 3 got to be tested for, no exception and no wild guessing!!!Measure it!!!

Next step is to dose Iodide, ideally daily, only a few drops that's it and use only half of what the bottle says and you are on the safe side!!! Risk of overdosing is too high when not much experience.

Then if a tank is running for 6 months or longer, you start looking into Potassium as well.
A salifert kit is what I use. It indicates at least if I'm too low or good.

Running than successful SPS on the longer timescale you just simply invest once a year in an ICP test and see where minor trace elements need correction!
But you have to get there first ;-)

I can recommend to keep up with Trace elements if you had issues with your tank and setup and struggle already since a while, simply use Tropic Marin Pro as a trustful salt for reef aquaria, and do 4 -6 large water changes as a starting point.
Also if you do a fresh start, use that salt to start with ;-)
I did not on the 300, and I regret that!!!

Another awesome explanation but still comes with frustration and confusion. It was asked by someone, how can you explain keeping SPS within a week when the typical consensus and experience is it takes a mature established reef to keep SPS... and anything prior to X time is likely to have major issues (TN). This post for me strikes a particular cord. Without going into specifics here... my tank was up for 1 year, around the 8 month mark I got to the basics and kept the tank more stable than ever and saw major growth for the only SPS I could keep (purple stylo)... all others previously went through TN.... then all of a sudden I look in the tank and the stylo is experiencing TN. Very frustrating... but I think it brings into play your other explanations for TN. Hard to tell but you saw my ICP test, there was no reason I shouldn't be able to keep SPS considering I had a "mature" reef tank and "stable" basic water parameters....

Bottle line what I am getting at here is not to solve my problems via communication in your thread. But maybe you can revisit these thoughts and expand on how you had immediate success while fighting the stigma that you should not have been able to achieve what you did in the amount of time you did. How can an "immature" reef, out compete a "mature" reef?

ps: my head is spinning from all the knowledge in here ;Inpain

 

[Crazy Seahorse]

@AngryOwl Your post could have been written by me. I´m in exactly the same situation as you. Had to stop my old tank due to a waterdamage caused by a powerfailure.
Build a completely new set up. Everything is new, display, sumps, all the pumps and the skimmer is from Royal exclusiv. Brand new DaStaCo calcium reactor. It has been set up by the correct way. New Live rock and of course RoDi water. Started up july 2017. First corals after around 9 months. It wont take off. All messurements is ok. ICP test ok.
Corals are suffering and only show very little growth. I´m confused and can´t figure out, whats wrong. So, I completely understand your frustrations, cause I feel the same way. The system is 2.700 Liters (Display 1.600 liters) I´ve been a reefer since 2005 and never experienced this before.

 

[Crazy Seahorse]

Just want to add, that I have been following this tread form the first day. Saying to myself a lot of times, "this can´t be done, it have to go wrong" But it doesn´t.
Andre, you are doing things, that I never had the courage to do - and get away with it. The corals look so beautiful and healthy. I´m really amazed by your reef and your work.