Another bill against marine fish: H.R. 6447

[Js.Aqua.Project]

@blecki @EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
I frequent a handful of aquariums like the Tennessee Aquarium in Chattanooga, Florida Aquarium in Tampa, and honestly SeaWorld Orlando has the best coral displays of all them.

The FL Aquarium has a propagation greenhouse that feels like an awkward afterthought based on its location and hardly and quality true reef tanks.

The TN Aquarium only has one real reef tank and it is mainly softies and anemones.

Most larger aquariums seem to focus on the shock and awe of exposing the public/clientele to the fish/creatures and larger problems like why not to pollute verses educating them on all the minute problems like collection practices, reef sustainability, coral growth, etc...

 

[dandi]

What if we draft something like this and ask everyone to write their congress person...
The Positive Environmental Impact of Reef Hobbyists

I am writing to you as a constituent and an avid supporter of environmental conservation, particularly in the realm of marine ecosystems. It has come to my attention that the contributions of reef hobbyists to environmental protection are often overlooked. I would like to take this opportunity to highlight how this community positively influences marine conservation and public awareness.

Reef hobbyists are not just enthusiasts who appreciate marine life from a distance; they are active participants in the conservation of marine ecosystems. Through the maintenance of home aquariums, these hobbyists develop a deep understanding of and appreciation for the delicate balance required for reef ecosystems to thrive. This hands-on experience is invaluable in fostering a conservation mindset.

Moreover, reef hobbyists often become ambassadors for marine conservation in their communities. By sharing their passion and knowledge about marine life with friends, family, and the public, they raise awareness about the importance of protecting these vital ecosystems. This grassroots level of education is crucial in building a broader public understanding and support for marine conservation efforts.

Importantly, many hobbyists actively participate in and support coral propagation initiatives. These efforts are not just about sustaining their aquariums; they have real-world implications for reef restoration projects. By cultivating corals, hobbyists help to mitigate the impacts of coral bleaching and other environmental stressors on natural reefs.

Furthermore, the reef hobbyist community often collaborates with scientists and conservation organizations. This collaboration includes sharing valuable data on coral health and growth patterns, contributing to a larger body of research that can inform policy and conservation strategies.

Therefore, I respectfully urge you to recognize and support the positive contributions of reef hobbyists in environmental conservation efforts. By fostering a supportive legislative environment for these enthusiasts, we can further enhance their ability to contribute to the preservation and restoration of our precious marine ecosystems.

Thank you for considering this perspective. I am confident that with your support and leadership, we can make significant strides in marine conservation that benefit not only our environment but also future generations.

Perhaps we should take action. It might not help but it couldn't hurt

 

[Barncat]

Some great replies to this thread.
Comparing the impact of fishing trawlers dragging nets to the collection of corals and fish for the aquarium trade is an interesting exercise, as both activities interact with marine ecosystems, but in different ways and with varying degrees of impact.

Scale and Intensity:

• Trawling: Often conducted on a large industrial scale, trawling can affect extensive areas of the ocean floor, including vast stretches of coral reefs.
• Aquarium Trade: The collection for the aquarium trade is typically more targeted and occurs on a smaller scale. However, if not regulated, it can lead to overharvesting of specific species or areas.

Type of Damage:

• Trawling: Causes physical destruction of coral structures and the seabed, leading to habitat loss for many marine species. This impact is immediate and often severe.
• Aquarium Trade: The primary concern is the over-collection of certain popular species, which can lead to local population declines. Coral collection, if done unsustainably, can damage coral reefs but usually in a less physically destructive manner than trawling.

Biodiversity Impact:

• Trawling: Reduces overall biodiversity due to habitat destruction and has a significant bycatch problem, affecting a wide range of non-target species.
• Aquarium Trade: Potentially impacts the biodiversity of specific species targeted for collection. Sustainable practices, such as captive breeding and coral propagation, can mitigate these impacts.
• Ecosystem Functioning:
• Trawling: The extensive damage to the sea floor and coral structures can have far-reaching effects on the entire marine ecosystem, altering food webs and nutrient cycles.
• Aquarium Trade: Primarily affects the populations of specific species and their immediate surroundings. With responsible collection practices, these effects can be localized and minimized.Socio-economic Implications:
• Trawling: Often driven by commercial interests, trawling can provide significant economic benefits but also has the potential to adversely affect local fishing communities and tourism.
• Aquarium Trade: Provides economic opportunities for local collectors and exporters. In regions where sustainable practices are employed, it can be a source of income without significant ecological harm.
• Recovery and Management:
• Trawling: Areas impacted by trawling can take decades to recover, if recovery is possible at all. Strong management and regulation are required to prevent irreversible damage.
• Aquarium Trade: With proper regulation and sustainable collection practices, including the use of mariculture and captive breeding, ecosystems can maintain their resilience, and species populations can be managed sustainably.
• Global Impact:
• Trawling: The effects are global, impacting numerous marine ecosystems around the world.
• Aquarium Trade: The impact is more localized, affecting specific regions where collection occurs. The global impact is more linked to transportation and trade practices.

In summary, while both activities have the potential to negatively impact marine ecosystems, the scale, intensity, and nature of the damage caused by trawling are generally much greater and more destructive than those associated with responsibly managed aquarium trade. The key to reducing the environmental impact of both activities lies in sustainable practices, effective regulation, and ongoing scientific research to guide policy decisions.
We need to convince congress to understand the benefits the hobby brings to the environment. I truly believe it is a net positive impact.

Okay, this made me feel a little better about wild caught fish. I WANT to buy all captive bred but up here in Canada there's very few species available and most of them cost an arm and a leg. (And yes this potential American law effects us.) What my brain comes down to is the fact that we are preserving some species in captivity including stony corals and notably fish like the banggai cardinal - which was almost extinct in the wild - whereas with food fishing? Guaranteed death and suffering for the animals that we love.

Instead of attacking the live collection of these animals they should be working on establishing more and bigger zones where absolutely nobody is allowed to fish (either kind) or use engine powered boats of any kind including submarines. Fish populations get restored in these areas, they spill into areas where they aren't as protected through natural dispersal. And yes we already have areas like this but we need more of them!

EDIT:
Also the only public aquarium that I have ever been to was the Vancouver Aquarium and that place is glorious. They do a lot of great wildlife rescue and science there too, so not all public aquariums are derps when it comes to science! (The Monteray Bay Aquarium also looks outstanding scientifically with their deepwater exhibits.)

Also most of those burmese pythons in the everglades weren't released pets; they escaped from a breeding facility after it was literally destroyed by a hurricane. One or two released snakes in random places doesn't establish a breeding population. Most people love their burms and would never abandon them, they're apparently awesome pets for those who can handle their size!

I want to point out that most laypeople aren't going to pick apart legal jargon concerning what is allowed. Spicy example, sorry: take the abortion issue - technically, a miscarriage is an abortion so because of abortion being banned in places, in those places doctors can't do what needs to be done to save a woman who has miscarried and requires surgical intervention to live unless she's already on death's door. Likewise border officials probably aren't going to look that hard at our fish imports if this bill passes.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Okay, this made me feel a little better about wild caught fish. I WANT to buy all captive bred but up here in Canada there's very few species available and most of them cost an arm and a leg. (And yes this American law effects us.) What my brain comes down to is the fact that we are preserving some species in captivity including stony corals and notably fish like the banggai cardinal - which was almost extinct in the wild - whereas with food fishing? Guaranteed death and suffering for the animals that we love.

Instead of attacking the live collection of these animals they should be working on establishing more and bigger zones where absolutely nobody is allowed to fish (either kind) or use engine powered boats of any kind including submarines. Fish populations get restored in these areas, they spill into areas where they aren't as protected through natural dispersal. And yes we already have areas like this but we need more of them!

Yes, I like the idea of the protected zones. And they've been shown and proven to work but have also back fired.

Hawaii did a few of these but then went "look the fish are coming back" and then banned all collection and exports when the real problem was the over fishing for consumption not the over collection for export. They were catching fish incidentally in nets with trawling for other fish and once establish safe zones the populations started to greatly rebound. As soon as the studies started to show the population returning they just stopped allowing collections but kept allowing the trawling. Make it make sense.

 

[KrisReef]

Just another bill that will go no where

Correction; a bill that should go nowhere. It needs to be opposed and killed and that takes engagement from lobbyists and the public with time and money that should be spent on new corals and tank maintenance, imo.

 

[wheels4896]

Correction; a bill that should go nowhere. It needs to be opposed and killed and that takes engagement from lobbyists and the public with time and money that should be spent on new corals and tank maintenance, imo.

With its one cosponsor I think the threat is negligible. I would be more concerned with the language being plugged into a larger bill.

 

[KrisReef]

Okay, this made me feel a little better about wild caught fish. I WANT to buy all captive bred but up here in Canada there's very few species available and most of them cost an arm and a leg. (And yes this potential American law effects us.) What my brain comes down to is the fact that we are preserving some species in captivity including stony corals and notably fish like the banggai cardinal - which was almost extinct in the wild - whereas with food fishing? Guaranteed death and suffering for the animals that we love.

Instead of attacking the live collection of these animals they should be working on establishing more and bigger zones where absolutely nobody is allowed to fish (either kind) or use engine powered boats of any kind including submarines. Fish populations get restored in these areas, they spill into areas where they aren't as protected through natural dispersal. And yes we already have areas like this but we need more of them!

EDIT:
Also the only public aquarium that I have ever been to was the Vancouver Aquarium and that place is glorious. They do a lot of great wildlife rescue and science there too, so not all public aquariums are derps when it comes to science! (The Monteray Bay Aquarium also looks outstanding scientifically with their deepwater exhibits.)

Also most of those burmese pythons in the everglades weren't released pets; they escaped from a breeding facility after it was literally destroyed by a hurricane. One or two released snakes in random places doesn't establish a breeding population. Most people love their burms and would never abandon them, they're apparently awesome pets for those who can handle their size!

I want to point out that most laypeople aren't going to pick apart legal jargon concerning what is allowed. Spicy example, sorry: take the abortion issue - technically, a miscarriage is an abortion so because of abortion being banned in places, in those places doctors can't do what needs to be done to save a woman who has miscarried and requires surgical intervention to live unless she's already on death's door. Likewise border officials probably aren't going to look that hard at our fish imports if this bill passes.

This kind of preservation of breeding grounds has been implemented in CA and the outcome was to close most of the nearshore rocky habitat along the entire coast line. Now there is a new push to create another closed area in the central coast to make a monument for Native Americans who deem the area as sacred.

When the whole world is protected it will be illegal to fish for anything, unless you are given an allotment.

Having the entire world protected will shut down fish and coral collections for everyone except the people who are deemed worthy.

That creates a economic incentive for poaching to keep on harvesting in the most egregious ways.

California has legalized marajuna growing but the legal grows are still only a small fraction of the weed grown in the state. The rest is grown by criminals who use the worst environmental practices and don’t pay taxes.

The closures caused a new weed problem that has not improved the State ime.

 

[KrisReef]

With its one cosponsor I think the threat is negligible. I would be more concerned with the language being plugged into a larger bill.

The first time is a test strategy. They will keep at this, learning as they go and gaining support until the worst passable law is signed into effect. That is the traditional trajectory of these politicians who want donations from the public and recognition for their pro environment policies.

 

[blecki]

I frequent a handful of aquariums like the Tennessee Aquarium in Chattanooga, Florida Aquarium in Tampa, and honestly SeaWorld Orlando has the best coral displays of all them.

The smithsonian tank at the natural history museum in DC was pretty awesome last time I was there! I know the abney tank was moved to florida but whoever replaced him is doing a good job.

Spicy example, sorry: take the abortion issue - technically, a miscarriage is an abortion so because of abortion being banned in places, in those places doctors can't do what needs to be done to save a woman who has miscarried and requires surgical intervention to live unless she's already on death's door. Likewise border officials probably aren't going to look that hard at our fish imports if this bill passes.

Exactly my point. Your example is perfect. Whether or not the law bans it, the doctors weren't sure and so just stopped all of them. As soon as there is any uncertainty institutions will fall on the side of banning everything.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The issue (blecki and Eeyore) has a lot to do with protocols, documentation, etc. They are not home aquarists and are bound by a different set of rules, budgets, etc. Many (most) times the aquarium staff and director are very well versed but don't have the budget or approval to do any more than you see and/or need to submit endless and well written plans for any changes, including maintenance, cost analysis, regulation and reporting compliance etc. If that particular exhibit is not a huge draw, then it is often not worth the hassle.

 

[blecki]

The issue (blecki and Eeyore) has a lot to do with protocols, documentation, etc. They are not home aquarists and are bound by a different set of rules, budgets, etc. Many (most) times the aquarium staff and director are very well versed but don't have the budget or approval to do any more than you see and/or need to submit endless and well written plans for any changes, including maintenance, cost analysis, regulation and reporting compliance etc. If that particular exhibit is not a huge draw, then it is often not worth the hassle.

Understandable. On the other hand, I think that a freaking huge reef tank would definitely be a huge draw.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Understandable. On the other hand, I think that a freaking huge reef tank would definitely be a huge draw.

I think it depends on the area and the rest of the aquatics setup as well.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

The issue (blecki and Eeyore) has a lot to do with protocols, documentation, etc. They are not home aquarists and are bound by a different set of rules, budgets, etc. Many (most) times the aquarium staff and director are very well versed but don't have the budget or approval to do any more than you see and/or need to submit endless and well written plans for any changes, including maintenance, cost analysis, regulation and reporting compliance etc. If that particular exhibit is not a huge draw, then it is often not worth the hassle.

No, the issue in Galveston is that, after multiple people dedicated tremendous amounts of their time, not to mention coral specimens, to help Moody Gardens create a coral reef display, the management changed and the project was neglected.
The volunteers would have continued to help out with the displays had they been allowed to...

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thanks for the mansplain...
No, the issue in Galveston is that, after multiple people dedicated tremendous amounts of their time, not to mention coral specimens, to help Moody Gardens create a coral reef display, the management changed and the project was neglected.
The volunteers would have continued to help out with the displays had they been allowed to...

The point being made was general and stands regardless of what the actual details were in Galveston, it was simply part of (adding to) a conversation.

I have a good bit of first hand insight into our Zoo and Aquarium here in Pittsburgh and several others where friends have worked and/or managed such exhibits (or the entire zoo), some small and some extremely large (not the friends, well one... but the zoos and exhibits). I was simply offering a bit of context to why many of these exhibits are lackluster compared to our home reefs and/or what we know to be doable. I didn't mention office politics, but that too comes into play.

In any case, please put me on your ignore list if you can't control your emotion or dislike for me. The dramatic outbursts are disservice to everyone else participating and it keeps happening. Please put me on ignore and then I will not be obliged to respond to the drama.

 

[Kiboshed]

No, the issue in Galveston is that, after multiple people dedicated tremendous amounts of their time, not to mention coral specimens, to help Moody Gardens create a coral reef display, the management changed and the project was neglected.
The volunteers would have continued to help out with the displays had they been allowed to...

The point being made was general and stands regardless of what the actual details were in Galveston, it was simply part of (adding to) a conversation.

I have a good bit of first hand insight into our Zoo and Aquarium here in Pittsburgh and several others where friends have worked and/or managed such exhibits (or the entire zoo), some small and some extremely large (not the friends, well one... but the zoos and exhibits). I was simply offering a bit of context to why many of these exhibits are lackluster compared to our home reefs and/or what we know to be doable. I didn't mention office politics, but that too comes into play.

In any case, please put me on your ignore list if you can't control your emotion or dislike for me. The dramatic outbursts are disservice to everyone else participating and it keeps happening. Please put me on ignore and then I will not be obliged to respond to the drama.

Let's focus on the very real issue at hand and you folks can keyboard slap fight in your DMs.

Anybody know when the next actual vote is on this thing?

 

[ShakeyGizzard]

Let's focus on the very real issue at hand and you folks can keyboard slap fight in your DMs.

Anybody know when the next actual vote is on this thing?

The bill like it is wont make it, it will be altered , pork added, etc. the main agenda is probably an attempt to add more taxes, regulations, permit requirements, etc. and just like climate change this will do nothing to address what's going on in other countries

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Last major aquarium I went to - I'll call it out, it was the virginia aquarium in virginia beach - their 'reef tank' was just BTAs and clarki clowns. They had a 'coral propagation' exhibit which contained three or four frags in a 40 breeder tank with 10k of needless equipment attached to it. Don't count on institutions to have any clue about coral.

This topic has come up for decades. I recall one person who is very well known in the hobby was a "public aquarium detractor" on Compuserve in the late 1980's. He is nows an assistant curator in charge of a large public aquarium reef display (grin).

When you drill down into it, there just isn't all that much descreopency. For every nice home aquarium you see, there are dozens of algae/Aiptasia filled tanks. Then, some people's idea of a "great" reef tank is a blue lighted coral tray with expensive frags all lined up in a row (grin).

I had forgotten, but I actually wrote about this back in 2008:

Why is your home reef tank “nicer” than the one at your local public aquarium? - CORAL Magazine

Jay Hemdal examines a phenomenon he calls "public aquarium bashing" and provides an insiders point of view.

www.coralmagazine.com

Jay

 

[BeanAnimal]

Let's focus on the very real issue at hand and you folks can keyboard slap fight in your DMs.

Comments like that simply enter you into the fray - Be careful with those stones in that glass house. Best to just ignore if you really want things to move on.

As for the bill, there is no vote. It would have to be accepted into committee first and it hasn't been and none of its predecessors were.

The Legislative Process | house.gov

www.house.gov

Saving NEMO Act (H.R. 6447)

To prohibit certain actions with respect to certain marine reef species, and for other purposes.

www.govtrack.us

As others have mentioned, it has no chance on its own. The bill and its ancestors are likely to appease activists, special interests and their money (votes). It is not intended to "pass". It is a vehicle for "I am doing what you elected me to do, send me money and keep voting for me". It could (likely not) end up as part of another bill if said interests can crank up enough pressure.

 

[BeanAnimal]

This topic has come up for decades. I recall one person who is very well known in the hobby was a "public aquarium detractor" on Compuserve in the late 1980's. He is nows an assistant curator in charge of a large public aquarium reef display (grin).

When you drill down into it, there just isn't all that much descreopency. For every nice home aquarium you see, there are dozens of algae/Aiptasia filled tanks. Then, some people's idea of a "great" reef tank is a blue lighted coral tray with expensive frags all lined up in a row (grin).

I had forgotten, but I actually wrote about this back in 2008:

Why is your home reef tank “nicer” than the one at your local public aquarium? - CORAL Magazine

Jay Hemdal examines a phenomenon he calls "public aquarium bashing" and provides an insiders point of view.

www.coralmagazine.com

Jay

Thanks for the link and stellar memory Jay!

I think this brings up a very good point. If any of you have a chance to get behind the scenes at your local zoo or aquarium, you absolutely should. If you are in a local reef club, arrange a tour that includes "behind the scenes" with the zoo or aquarium. They like to do these kinds of things, as it is public outreach that they need.

Here in Pittsburgh, we used to do an annual behind the scenes tour. A few of our members even took diving lessons so that they could volunteer to help in the large reef display.

 

[Wilma]

it is interesting that of all the problems we face, the marine aquarium trade is on the list of things our government spends time on