Another dumb pH question.

[GillMeister]

Is anyone else seeing something like the issue I'm having with my pH fluctuations? Every evening at about 7pm my pH begins to drop and that decline begins to flatten about 4am. At 6am every morning it quickly drops another ~.04 pH within 30 minutes to an hour. The pH then increases throughout the day as it should.

What causes this and how common is it?

BTW, I added a CO2 scrubber and it didn't affect this pattern.

 

[DC Reefer]

The drop looks normal to me. Two of my tanks drop about .15 each night. One has a CO2 scrubber on it and the other runs to an HVAC vent (mostly outside air). Not sure why it flattens for a couple of hours and then drops again. Did the CO2 scrubber raise the PH at all? Ph seems a little on the low side. does someone leave the house every day around 4am?

 

[GillMeister]

The CO2 scrubber had an impact over a one week period, getting as high as 8.2 but it quickly dropped to an average of 8.0.

No one leave or enters the house at this time.

I'll begin dosing kalk this weekend to see what this does to my pH.

 

[DC Reefer]

do you use a CA reactor? Seems like the CO2 scrubber media got exhausted really fast. Mine usually goes for 3-4 weeks before needing to change out and am running it on a tank w/ a CA reactor. CO2 scrubber is recirculating off of my skimmer which increases the life of the media. Looks like a high level of CO2 in the home. Kalk should help some. If dosing 2 part soda ash for Alk helps some as well. I find the best thing I can do is leave the window open although we are looking at highs in the 20s in a couple of days so won't be doing that.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is anyone else seeing something like the issue I'm having with my pH fluctuations? Every evening at about 7pm my pH begins to drop and that decline begins to flatten about 4am. At 6am every morning it quickly drops another ~.04 pH within 30 minutes to an hour. The pH then increases throughout the day as it should.

What causes this and how common is it?

BTW, I added a CO2 scrubber and it didn't affect this pattern.

Do you wake up and start breathing around the tank at 6 am?

 

[GillMeister]

do you use a CA reactor? Seems like the CO2 scrubber media got exhausted really fast. Mine usually goes for 3-4 weeks before needing to change out and am running it on a tank w/ a CA reactor. CO2 scrubber is recirculating off of my skimmer which increases the life of the media. Looks like a high level of CO2 in the home. Kalk should help some. If dosing 2 part soda ash for Alk helps some as well. I find the best thing I can do is leave the window open although we are looking at highs in the 20s in a couple of days so won't be doing that.

Yeah, I live in Minnie so leaving a window open isn't an option. I don't know what the CO2 level is in my house but it can't be extremely high. I might have high methane levels with my Son living here until November. That makes life difficult for my Wife and myself but the coral and fish dont mind. I dose a little soda ash with my ato and my alk is running around 9.5.

 

[GillMeister]

Do you wake up and start breathing around the tank at 6 am?

No. I don't come near the tank until 7:30 at the earliest.

 

[Twoddler]

Glad I don't have apex, sounds like number chasing to me, once a week testing for me

 

[GillMeister]

Glad I don't have apex, sounds like number chasing to me, once a week testing for me

You could be right. What I'm chasing is stability and doing my best to identify sources of variation. I'm a six sigma kind of guy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It might just be a small amount of electrical interference, or maybe some fish become active if it is beginning to be light out, and they release more CO2 than when sleeping.

 

[Pistondog]

Yeah, I live in Minnie so leaving a window open isn't an option. I don't know what the CO2 level is in my house but it can't be extremely high. I might have high methane levels with my Son living here until November. That makes life difficult for my Wife and myself but the coral and fish dont mind. I dose a little soda ash with my ato and my alk is running around 9.5.

It doesn't take much co2 to lower the ph, and i disagree about your co2 levels. I have a co2 monitor, unless a window is open itll be above 1500ppm, > 2000 if 3 or more people. Window open, less than 600.
My tank is in a media room. I can tell by the ph drop when someone is watching a movie.
When do your lights come on?
Could the fish be waking up/more active at 6am producing more co2?
Or perhaps your hvac is redistributing co2 from the bedrooms around that time
I ran a line for the skimmer outside, which helps.

 

[GillMeister]

It doesn't take much co2 to lower the ph, and i disagree about your co2 levels. I have a co2 monitor, unless a window is open itll be above 1500ppm, > 2000 if 3 or more people. Window open, less than 600.
My tank is in a media room. I can tell by the ph drop when someone is watching a movie.
When do your lights come on?
Could the fish be waking up/more active at 6am producing more co2?
Or perhaps your hvac is redistributing co2 from the bedrooms around that time
I ran a line for the skimmer outside, which helps.

My lights come on at 8am. My tank is in the basement and there is nobody down there until I start working at 7:30. My basement is controlled by hydronic heating so I'm inclined to believe it's not HVAC related. One possibility, other than fish respiration, is that's typical shower time and we have a gas water heater. The utility room is in the basement.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One possibility, other than fish respiration, is that's typical shower time and we have a gas water heater. The utility room is in the basement.

That would indicate a problem with the heater exhaust if true. I'd be sure to have a carbon monoxide detector on that floor.

 

[GillMeister]

That would indicate a problem with the heater exhaust if true. I'd be sure to have a carbon monoxide detector on that floor.

I have a CO detector mere feet from the water heater. I'm just throwing ideas out there at this point. I dripped kalk last night and the pH remained flat.

 

[EMeyer]

I think from your post that you're aware its normal for pH to fall every night and rise during the day. Right?

Since the levels you're hitting for max / min pH are normal, I wouldnt worry about the odd shape of the curve, personally.

Does it stay the same on weekdays vs weekends, when your household schedule is likely different?

 

[GillMeister]

I think from your post that you're aware its normal for pH to fall every night and rise during the day. Right?

Since the levels you're hitting for max / min pH are normal, I wouldnt worry about the odd shape of the curve, personally.

Does it stay the same on weekdays vs weekends, when your household schedule is likely different?

Yes, relativey consistent patterns. I am aware of the natural daily fluctuations but my original question had to do with the rapid drop I see every morning before sunrise. I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this. My ultimate goal is to get the pH at 8.2 and reduce the variation.

 

[schuby]

Do you have a refugium with macro algae and a light that runs when your DT lights are off? If so, I'd guess the refugium light goes off before 6am, allowing the pH to fall faster until the DT lights come on. Running the light on a refugium opposite the time of the DT lights usually slows the drop of pH and raises the floor value of pH on any one day.

 

[richarddeweerd]

What happens in your tank or in your house at that time?

A lot of CO2 in the house or more specific in the room of your skimmer air intake can definitely cause this.

 

[GillMeister]

Do you have a refugium with macro algae and a light that runs when your DT lights are off? If so, I'd guess the refugium light goes off before 6am, allowing the pH to fall faster until the DT lights come on. Running the light on a refugium opposite the time of the DT lights usually slows the drop of pH and raises the floor value of pH on any one day.

That, is an excellent question. I don't have any chaeto in my fuge right now, but I did activate the fuge light for the first time last night. It goes on when my tank goes dark and off when the tank lights up. I hadn't put any algae in the sump yet because I didn't think my nutrients were quite where I wanted them. I'm at that point now and chaeto is on its way.

 

[GillMeister]

What happens in your tank or in your house at that time?

A lot of CO2 in the house or more specific in the room of your skimmer air intake can definitely cause this.

That's about the time we wake up in the morning give or take an hour. Our room is on the second floor and the DT is in the basement. Nothing happens in the tank at that time.