Another Velvet Question

[DC504]

Sorry in advance for the long post...

So I purchased a Gold-rimmed Tang and a Lyretail Anthias from a "reputable" online seller a couple weeks ago. I drip acclimated for ~ 2 hours and placed them directly in quarantine. My plan was to get them eating and comfortable and then begin the quarantine med protocol after day 3. Within 36 hours, the tang had noticeable signs of velvet, both visually and behaviorally. At the time I wasn't sure if it was ich or velvet, but I started treating with Cupramine immediately. I think my mistake was following the instruction and bringing the therapeutic level up over 48 hours as I lost the Anthias the next day. I think the Tang has made over the hump as is on the way to recovery. He spent most of the first few days after starting treatment hiding. His color was very pale and obviously too many lesions to count. Over the last couple of weeks, he has colored up, eats like a horse, and is exhibiting what I would consider normal fish behavior, but the one thing still remains and brings me to my question. The spots have vanished / re-appeared probably 3 times since I started treating. At .5 mg/L for nearly 2 weeks, I would have figured this would have stopped by now (he has a few lesions at the current moment)? I know the recommended treatment is a full month, but all the velvet horror stories I've read makes me worry about a resistant strain. Should I be doing anything different or just stay the current course? I tried to snap a pic but apparently he hates cell phones or electronics made Samsung.

Thanks!

 

[Big G]

Keep in mind the copper only kills the parasite during its "free swimming" stage of life. So the reappearance is each wave of new parasites. Not uncommon to see. I've always treated for the full 30 days, keeping close eye on maintaining the therapeutic level at all times.

 

[DC504]

Keep in mind the copper only kills the parasite during its "free swimming" stage of life. So the reappearance is each wave of new parasites. Not uncommon to see. I've always treated for the full 30 days, keeping close eye on maintaining the therapeutic level at all times.

Firstly, thank you for the quick response! So the reappearance of the new waves is confusing me and it's probably because I don't have a good grasp of the life cycle. If copper kills the free swimmers, shouldn't reinfection not occur after a reasonable amount of time? If the copper is at a therapeutic level and the parasite only survives in the host for a finite amount of time in the fish, shouldn't the newly emerged dinospores die before they can reinfect? Seachem's directions only recommend a 2 week treatment. I'm nearly at the end of 2 weeks and I still seeing signs of an active infection (Apparently, Seachem doesn't have a good grasp on the life cycle either).

I'm not questioning your advice by any means, just trying to gain a better understanding. I will continue stay the current course and monitor my levels closely. At what point should I be concerned if I'm still seeing lesions appear?

 

[ngoodermuth]

A photo would be helpful. Any excessive shedding/sliming? Brook is another possibility, can look similar to velvet and isn’t treated by copper.

 

[DC504]

No shedding / sliming that I've noticed and of course, today, he has only a few spots. Sorry for all the floating debris, had to feed him to get a pic (he really hates my phone lol). If you look towards the top of his head, you can faintly make out a few spots.


/ sliming

 

[Big G]

Firstly, thank you for the quick response! So the reappearance of the new waves is confusing me and it's probably because I don't have a good grasp of the life cycle. If copper kills the free swimmers, shouldn't reinfection not occur after a reasonable amount of time? If the copper is at a therapeutic level and the parasite only survives in the host for a finite amount of time in the fish, shouldn't the newly emerged dinospores die before they can reinfect? Seachem's directions only recommend a 2 week treatment. I'm nearly at the end of 2 weeks and I still seeing signs of an active infection (Apparently, Seachem doesn't have a good grasp on the life cycle either).

I'm not questioning your advice by any means, just trying to gain a better understanding. I will continue stay the current course and monitor my levels closely. At what point should I be concerned if I'm still seeing lesions appear?[/QUOTE

Very difficult to see the spots on this end. The thing about velvet, which cycles quickly, and Ich, which has a much slower cycle, it that not all the parasites hatch at the same time. So you will see the results of the parasites attachment (the white spots) after the parasite has dropped off the fish to "encyst", hatch and become "free swimmers"(this is the phase that the copper kills them) again searching for a fish to attack. So copper doesn't kill while the parasites are attached to the fish, or when they are encysted. So it takes awhile to kill them off. And of course this can vary quite a bit depending on the number of the parasites that are in your tank.

Things to look for during treatment with copper:
Lymphocystis: cottony or caulflower looking growths. This is a viral infection that the fish will have during its entire life. The copper has suppressed the immune system of the fish and the virus appears. High quality food and vitamins and pristine water quality will help with lympho. It's kinda like herpes in humans.
Bacterial infections: look for red-ish or the more common white-ish filmy areas. Treat with antibiotics. Very common to treat with Kanaplex during copper. Kanaplex is very mild and works well. But sometimes the infection goes more aggressive and suggest you have on hand NFG powder or The Trifecta of Kanaplex + Furan2 + Metro.

 

[DC504]

So here is a better picture. It took me camping out in front of the tank for 30 minutes. Once he got used to my phone shoved in his face, I was able to catch it at the right angle.

The number of spots are decreasing with each wave, and it's probably an information overload induced paranoia on my part, but I'm a noob and just want to make sure things are going the right direction.

Thanks!