another zoa not opening thread

[melonheadorion]

alright, so ive asked about this before, and gave my zoas some time to see if they open up on their own. weeks later, and still same issue. for the most part, many of them partially open, but the most you can see is the mouth and maybe a little around it. however, i have a colony of orange bam bams and blue berry fields/pie that seem to do fine. the blueberry fields, since there are so many on this colony, might have a handful that close, but through the day, they will reopen, and the bam bams stay open unless the shrimp touches them.
however, the gobstoppers, scrambled eggs, and pink zippers, stay closed through the day. they will sometimes partially open, but tend to jsut stay shut. out of the 6 scrambled egg polyps, one is openout to the skirt, but the skirt has not extended.

my parameters are good, but ive listed them below.
salinity 1.025
ammonia 0
nitrate 10
calcium 420
alk-9.5-10
ph-8
phosphate-.2 or less
temp 77.4

the tank is a 20 gal long ( with the light a total of about a foot from the water surface and about another foot from the zoas). lighting is the kessil a160 with the spectral contoller that i just use the auto tuning through the day to run itself for color and intensity. i would say that the water flow is moderate. ive moved corals around, higher/lower, darker/lighter, etc, but dont seem to have any luck with them opening any different. from the first day, everything was good with the ones that are currently closed, but about 2 or 3 days later, nothin.
for what its worth, my GSP is going good, as would be expected since it can practically live in toilet water, but also i have the two colonies that are thriving, and then there is my hammer coral which is doing phenominal and nearing a point its going to start splitting.

i can only attribute it to either flow or lighting, neither of which i can actually test for since my level of moderate might be different to someone else, and i dont have a par meter to see the par levels. if it were water parameters, i would expect to see other issues with the rest of my corals, and i dont foresee bacteria being such a thing when its all of them at the same time, and only happening to the newer ones, but i am open to thoughts.

 

[blaxsun]

I’m having similar issues, so if you ever figure it out let me know. I’ve ruled just about everything else out with the possible exception of lighting. I might try turning one light off for a day or two to see if that makes any difference.

 

[Hooz]

If you suspect lighting, have you tried lowering the intensity (same colors and schedule) for a few days to see if they open up?

 

[blaxsun]

If you suspect lighting, have you tried lowering the intensity (same colors and schedule) for a few days to see if they open up?

The challenge is that everything else is doing great (soft, LPS, SPS) so I really don’t want to screw that aspect up. I might try reprogramming just one of the lights nearest to that colony.

 

[Arthacker87]

Make sure there isn't vermited (?) Snails spewing mucus all over them or they will close. And sometimes mine close for a few days and bounce back open after 3 or 4 days. I just do a solid water change blow the frag off with a powered or water flow of sorts and leave em alone. If they were open before and close might just be closed for a bit. New to tank and closed I'd try a diff spot towards the edges and move them in gradually

 

[melonheadorion]

Make sure there isn't vermited (?) Snails spewing mucus all over them or they will close. And sometimes mine close for a few days and bounce back open after 3 or 4 days. I just do a solid water change blow the frag off with a powered or water flow of sorts and leave em alone. If they were open before and close might just be closed for a bit. New to tank and closed I'd try a diff spot towards the edges and move them in gradually

ive checked them all for any vermitid snails or other pests, and there are none. i do weekly water changes, and just did one after they had closed up.

when it comes to lighting, from what i have seen before, and please correct me if i am wrong, the color spectrum is mostly for our viewing pleasure. i know that some colors will go through water better than others, but its only a 20 gal so i dont think it should be much of an issue for any coilor at this point.
with the spectral controller, i just let it manage everything for me, and let the color level be set by that (im not adding red or other color manually) so that everything is evenly distributed by the controller. the most i should reaally be concerned with, is the intensity? or should i maybe lower the color levels as well, to be more on the blue side?

 

[littlebigreef]

@melonheadorion any chance you can snap some focused, detailed pics so we can see what the zoas are doing?

 

[melonheadorion]

@melonheadorion any chance you can snap some focused, detailed pics so we can see what the zoas are doing?

This is as good as i could get. the camera enhances the blue, so the light isnt quite as blue as the pictures might show. i also have moved them around today to try to get them to open up, but the current look is the way that they have been since i posted.
also, i have changed my lighting params a bit to see if that would work. i changed the lighting intensity to max out at 30, and put the lighting more toward the blue side
the first one is the scrambled eggs
the second has a mix of scrambled eggs and watermelon
the third is the pink zippers.
the last is the really big gobstoppers with some very small/new scrambled eggs.

 

[littlebigreef]

@melonheadorion thanks for posting the pics. After looking through them and your water parameters I didn't see anything that would cause me concern until I got to the last pic. How long have you had the bi color angel? Have you spent a protracted amount of time in front of the aquarium to make sure he's not picking at zoas? Including times between feedings? With pygmy angels it's so hit or miss what they'll chew on. Some won't touch any zoas ever, some chew on the stuff between zoas and some will occasionally nip at specific strains of zoas while leaving others alone. I once had a Nox angel that devastated bam bams but left other zoas alone.

Your polyps themselves look healthy from what I can see so I don't suspect a bacterial, nudi, or pox issue.

 

[melonheadorion]

@melonheadorion thanks for posting the pics. After looking through them and your water parameters I didn't see anything that would cause me concern until I got to the last pic. How long have you had the bi color angel? Have you spent a protracted amount of time in front of the aquarium to make sure he's not picking at zoas? Including times between feedings? With pygmy angels it's so hit or miss what they'll chew on. Some won't touch any zoas ever, some chew on the stuff between zoas and some will occasionally nip at specific strains of zoas while leaving others alone. I once had a Nox angel that devastated bam bams but left other zoas alone.

Your polyps themselves look healthy from what I can see so I don't suspect a bacterial, nudi, or pox issue from what I can see.

the only living thing that is actually touching them is the clownface goby, but that is because he sits near them, but very rarely, or the shrimp, and thats just through passing. i am next to my tank from 8am until 2am. not looking too much at the tank at 8pm on, but the lights are out at that point, and the fish go to their sleeping areas anyhow. the bi color never hung around them too much until 2 days ago when i moved the flow, now he is near them more, but he just plays in the current. ive had him for a few months, and after the 2nd week of having him, he hasnt grazed off of any surfaces that i have seen, so i am quite confident that he isnt picking on them at all.

on the other hand though, which watching the tank with lights out, and all of the little critters come out, i did see, what i believe to be some pods on the frags. hard to tell because i was using a flashlight and magnifier to see them, but i would compare them to a bug similar to a flea, except smaller. generally, there isnt too much in the tank other than copepods that would be that small, that i know of. the 2 frags that i saw them on, i took them out and coral dipped them just in case it was something that might be feeding, but im not sure that these would be anything to be concerned with, as i believe that they are probably just copepods, but no way to confirm since they are so small, and near impossible to take a picture of

 

[Hairyteeth]

Have you tried just softly brushing or basting them to make sure the debris free?

 

[melonheadorion]

Have you tried just softly brushing or basting them to make sure the debris free?

i havent brushed them, but i have used the turkey baster on them to make sure they have nothing on them

 

[BossChief]

Lugol iodine. 2 drops per week. Red seas test kit. Shoot for .06

 

[melonheadorion]

Lugol iodine. 2 drops per week. Red seas test kit. Shoot for .06

im already there, and no changes to their outcome

 

[RedFrog211]

Forgive me, I may have missed this information in the original post- how long have you had the corals before they closed? Was it only the first day that they were well, then they’ve been closed since? Are they still closed but alive?

some larger species of amphipods have been known to nip at zoas. Moving them onto frag racks can help resolve this- might be worth trying to see if it’s the issue.

 

[melonheadorion]

Forgive me, I may have missed this information in the original post- how long have you had the corals before they closed? Was it only the first day that they were well, then they’ve been closed since? Are they still closed but alive?

some larger species of amphipods have been known to nip at zoas. Moving them onto frag racks can help resolve this- might be worth trying to see if it’s the issue.

generally, they stay fully open for the day that i put them in, and then they close up on the next day or so, if they open at all. for example, i just bought a couple more, and they stayed open for a couple days, and now they partially open like they are in the pictures, maybe a bit more.
from what i can tell, they look alive. in fact, i believe some have even grown additional polyps since puttiing them in, even though they are closed. i have seen a couple frags that have had additional polyps form, and small polyps have gotten larger. again, this is even with them closed or partially open, so i suspect that they are still alive of course.
all of the ones that i am having issues with, are already on a frag rack, but that frag rack is just above the sand, and i have seen pods on them at night, so the rack isnt helping. however, i may make another rack (or buy one) that is suspended on the glass, to see if that helps. it is worth a try. the 2 frags that havent had issues are not on the frag rack and right next to all the rest, so perhaps those two are just lucky, but if pods are creating issues, it generally wont skip just a couple. but maybe this is an excuse to get a mandarin!

 

[blaxsun]

The zoa colonies that I mentioned were struggling a few posts back have slowly recovered. All are back to normal with the exception of the one main palythoa colony, but it’s showed marked improvement over the past week.

The suspected culprit? Not enough light. When I actually hooked up a Neptune PMK I was probably getting 60-70 PAR (or less) on many of the affected colonies. I’ve since increased my overall intensity such that the lowest PAR reading is closer to around 100-125.

I think the problem is that they were getting a lot more PAR in my lagoon tanks, and even though I increased the intensity I didn’t properly account for the additional water depth (which apparently made way more of a difference than I’d figured). Which is why they were initially fine for a while after being transferred but subsequently took a nose dive.

 

[Just John]

i havent brushed them, but i have used the turkey baster on them to make sure they have nothing on them

At the dollar store they sell makeup brushes for $1 each. The larger the brush, the softer it is. You may want to get more than one size. They are perfect for this.

 

[melonheadorion]

The zoa colonies that I mentioned were struggling a few posts back have slowly recovered. All are back to normal with the exception of the one main palythoa colony, but it’s showed marked improvement over the past week.

The suspected culprit? Not enough light. When I actually hooked up a Neptune PMK I was probably getting 60-70 PAR (or less) on many of the affected colonies. I’ve since increased my overall intensity such that the lowest PAR reading is closer to around 100-125.

I think the problem is that they were getting a lot more PAR in my lagoon tanks, and even though I increased the intensity I didn’t properly account for the additional water depth (which apparently made way more of a difference than I’d figured). Which is why they were initially fine for a while after being transferred but subsequently took a nose dive.

i dont have a par meter, so im going off of what i can to determine if it is lighting or not. my lighting was setup to be up to 50% intensity in the mid day, which at a foot away, should be more than plenty. i figured that if it would be anything, would maybe be too much light, so i reduced the lighting down to 30% intensity. i even tried using the acclimation option on the kessil, and it doesnt really show any difference between them. ive even moved a couple to shadowed areas, and still nothing. a par meter would definately help, but i dont know if i want to invest in something that has minimal use

 

[melonheadorion]

At the dollar store they sell makeup brushes for $1 each. The larger the brush, the softer it is. You may want to get more than one size. They are perfect for this.

since this post was originall listed, i have brushed them off, and it hasnt helpedd