Any Vegan Reefers Out There?

[KVYA]

Don't worry, this isn't going to be one of those irritating vegetarian lectures on how bad meat is. I am a vegan myself and I can't even stand people like that. Anyways, I was just thinking about how I don't eat any animal products or buy clothing with animal skin or byproducts, yet have no problem using animal byproducts or meat for my tanks. I was just curious if there are any vegan or vegetarian reefers and how they manage. For the record, I think corals and fish should be fed the types of foods they eat in the wild.

 

[Mike_J]

This is a very interesting topic you present. I'm very curious myself. Following along to see how this discussion unfolds.

 

[ReeferBob]

Don't worry, this isn't going to be one of those irritating vegetarian lectures on how bad meat is. I am a vegan myself and I can't even stand people like that. Anyways, I was just thinking about how I don't eat any animal products or buy clothing with animal skin or byproducts, yet have no problem using animal byproducts or meat for my tanks. I was just curious if there are any vegan or vegetarian reefers and how they manage. For the record, I think corals and fish should be fed the types of foods they eat in the wild.

What about the foods YOU would eat "in the wild"? Hmmm.....

 

[Brew12]

What about the foods YOU would eat "in the wild"? Hmmm.....

Why would anyone go "in the wild" to eat? :eek:

I've seen those survival shows and I am NOT EATING THAT!!! :p

 

[BlueRootReflection]

Growing up I fell in love with the hobby and after college, I didn't keep up any personal tanks, some time past and since then I've been vegan coming up on three years now. In that time the idea of keeping fish in anything but the most spacious and high end of setups has been off-putting along with the idea of feeding fish(/anything with the nervous system) to fish. Which brings me questions about my favorite part of the hobby, the coral reefing. If I knew that I could create a vegan reef tank, I would. Presently I can only speculate but if anyone has any experience.. that would be greatly appreciated. There are the vegan dog and cat foods fortified with the amino acids that an obligate carnivore would need.. but are those mammalian amino's and nutrients going to cut it? I don't see why not. Honestly, I'm not convinced plant-based nutrition wouldn't cut it. It's only a matter of time before I start experimenting on my own but until then, any experienced advice is greatly welcomed.

 

[Palytosis]

This is an interesting question. Is the "YOU feeding anything with a nervous system" piece the biggest issue? Would Designing a system YOU didn't need to feed get around the sticking point? I could imagine a system that grew enough pods to feed the few carnivores it contained.

 

[Jase4224]

Growing up I fell in love with the hobby and after college, I didn't keep up any personal tanks, some time past and since then I've been vegan coming up on three years now. In that time the idea of keeping fish in anything but the most spacious and high end of setups has been off-putting along with the idea of feeding fish(/anything with the nervous system) to fish. Which brings me questions about my favorite part of the hobby, the coral reefing. If I knew that I could create a vegan reef tank, I would. Presently I can only speculate but if anyone has any experience.. that would be greatly appreciated. There are the vegan dog and cat foods fortified with the amino acids that an obligate carnivore would need.. but are those mammalian amino's and nutrients going to cut it? I don't see why not. Honestly, I'm not convinced plant-based nutrition wouldn't cut it. It's only a matter of time before I start experimenting on my own but until then, any experienced advice is greatly welcomed.

Personally I don’t see any problems with people going vegan if they choose. I do however feel that forcing a pet such as a dog and especially a cat (which is a hyper predator) into a totally unnatural diet is unethical. A cats entire body is built as a specialist meat eater from its bones and muscle to its digestive system and even behaviour.. do we really know enough about amino acids and proteins to replace a cats diet with vegetables? Nope. If we choose to keep animals than we have a responsibility to give them the care and diet they require.

 

[Lasse]

There are vegan fishes too - fish that only eats vegetarian food in the wild. They are 100 % adapted to this food, length of intestine and so on. Alga eating snails, crabs and hermits too and algae and detritus eating pods - but there is a little problem - cause if you get a pod population of one or another pod will slip into the stomach of algae eaters. But if you can live with that – just go further. But remember – make a build thread about it. :)

IMO with some fish like most tangs, some blennies, some gobies and others - our way of feeding them with meaty food sometimes is more cruel than only give the vegan food.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

Personally I don’t see any problems with people going vegan if they choose. I do however feel that forcing a pet such as a dog and especially a cat (which is a hyper predator) into a totally unnatural diet is unethical. A cats entire body is built as a specialist meat eater from its bones and muscle to its digestive system and even behaviour.. do we really know enough about amino acids and proteins to replace a cats diet with vegetables? Nope. If we choose to keep animals than we have a responsibility to give them the care and diet they require.

How do you feel into give a cow a good steak :)

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Jase4224]

How do you feel into give a cow a good steak :)

Sincerely Lasse

Sorry I can’t understand what you mean?

Cows are vegetarians but I’m sure they get an unlucky bug here an there lol

I’m happy to eat steak too.

 

[Brew12]

There are the vegan dog and cat foods fortified with the amino acids that an obligate carnivore would need.. but are those mammalian amino's and nutrients going to cut it? I don't see why not. Honestly, I'm not convinced plant-based nutrition wouldn't cut it. It's only a matter of time before I start experimenting on my own but until then, any experienced advice is greatly welcomed.

Vegan dog foods work since dogs are not true carnivores because they have been domesticated for so long. A wolf would not be able to thrive on a vegan diet. Since many fish are not captive bred (and do not have centuries of domestication) they may not have those adaptions. That said, there are some fish that are almost completely herbivorous.

In that time the idea of keeping fish in anything but the most spacious and high end of setups has been off-putting along with the idea of feeding fish(/anything with the nervous system) to fish.

I'm not sure this is a reasonable goal. I feel a healthy reef tank will have pods and other critters. There is no reasonable way you can expect the fish in your system to not act in a predatory manner and not eat these smaller critters.

 

[Lasse]

If we choose to keep animals than we have a responsibility to give them the care and diet

Sorry I can’t understand what you mean?

Cows are vegetarians

That´s exactly what I meant - you need to give the food they need - and there is fishes that are almost 100 % herbivorous that can be the base for the whole system - you only need to feed them with vegetarian/vegan food - therefore if it is enough that you do not feed your system with other things than algae and plants - it can be done. If you care about that animals - created in your system - can be food in your system – it can´t be done because you can never be sure that they will not be eaten. But I´m 100 % sure that you can have a good reef with only adding vegan/vegetarian food stuff into it if you make the right choice of fish

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Jase4224]

That´s exactly what I meant - you need to give the food they need - and there is fishes that are almost 100 % herbivorous that can be the base for the whole system - you only need to feed them with vegetarian/vegan food - therefore if it is enough that you do not feed your system with other things than algae and plants - it can be done. If you care about that animals - created in your system - can be food in your system – it can´t be done because you can never be sure that they will not be eaten. But I´m 100 % sure that you can have a good reef with only adding vegan/vegetarian food stuff into it if you make the right choice of fish

Sincerely Lasse

Yeah I agree totally. You could even grow various algae’s for feeding and it would be sustainable too.

I’m gonna try and grow some lettuce algae in my sump for when I have Tangs and Angels. But for my Tuskfish and other meat eaters I will collect mussels and put them in my sump to keep them alive and fresh for feeding.

 

[Jase4224]

Vegan dog foods work since dogs are not true carnivores because they have been domesticated for so long. A wolf would not be able to thrive on a vegan diet. Since many fish are not captive bred (and do not have centuries of domestication) they may not have those adaptions. That said, there are some fish that are almost completely herbivorous.


I'm not sure this is a reasonable goal. I feel a healthy reef tank will have pods and other critters. There is no reasonable way you can expect the fish in your system to not act in a predatory manner and not eat these smaller critters.

Dogs would likely be more adaptable in their diet than wolves but they still need meat. To put a dog on a vegan diet is not going to be in the best interest of the dogs health. We simply don’t know everything that a dog gets from meat to be able to supplement and not to mention every dog, like people, had it’s own personal needs in regards to nutrition. Basically you can’t do it without risk to the animals health = irresponsible.

 

[Devaji]

Don't worry, this isn't going to be one of those irritating vegetarian lectures on how bad meat is. I am a vegan myself and I can't even stand people like that. Anyways, I was just thinking about how I don't eat any animal products or buy clothing with animal skin or byproducts, yet have no problem using animal byproducts or meat for my tanks. I was just curious if there are any vegan or vegetarian reefers and how they manage. For the record, I think corals and fish should be fed the types of foods they eat in the wild.

almost vegan Reefer here. vegetarian 20+ years I do eat a little cheese when out with friends tho. so 95% vegan.
this is a topic a ponder alot the ethics of reef keeping. I do feed my fish shrimp. I agree if we are going to keep animals we must give them what they need to be healthy.

I bet you could have a nice macro algae DT then add a few small herbivores in after the Macro get going nice and strong. be an interesting build thread for sure.

now on to the vegan cat/dog topic. my GF is a Vegan vet and consultant with a few of the vegan foods and we have a cat too. we feed the vegan cat food along with meat. really grouse, yuck. mysis ship is a pleasure to feed over cat food. I would have a reef tank and deal with feeding the fish shrimp than a cat anyway of the week.