Thanks,
You mean without photoshop and it overly blue.
Anyone using Dr. Sochting's Oxydator
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You mean without photoshop and it overly blue.
I'm certain that is not how the oxydator works. It doesn't release pure o2. The peroxide is trapped in the container and the cataylst slowly breaks down the bond. The o2 being released inside the catalyst rises and expands putting pressure on the container and releases a continuous stream of peroxide into the aquarium. The peroxide oxidizes algae and organics giving you a cleaner tank. The positive consequence from the ongoing oxidizing happening in the tank is you have a higher concentration of o2 in the system.
I do agree that there is a higher risk of overdose from a dosing pump and is something that really needs to be considered.
SDK
Reef Diver
That does not square up with what I have read. According to what Les and others have written about the process, most of the reaction is happening within the Oxydator and very little if any peroxide is being pushed into the water.
Almost but not quite how it works.
Allow me to explain. As the peroxide is forced out of the acrylic bottle it enters the ceramic beaker which is made of very similar ceramic to the catalysts which is impregnated with small amounts of silver just like the catalysts. The bottle is in close proximity to the ceramic beaker so as the peroxide is released most of it is broken down before it exits the Oxydator. I have this confirmed by the makers via the UK importer and have pasted the full reply I got in the files section of the Oxydator user group on Facebook.
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I wrote the following a couple of years ago after eventually getting an answer to my question on how Oxydators work from the manufacturer. Please note the response was from Germany in English so the description you may find vague where the peroxide is released from the bottle.
"The following was sent to me a while back. I asked Arian the importer and seller of Oxydators in the UK if he could get an answer for me to a question that had been bugging me about Oxydators and the release of peroxide into the DT.
A definitive answer to a long-running question about how the Oxydator dispenses is Oxygen/peroxide getting an answer from Söchting Biotechnik the makers of the Oxydator. I got the reply I had been seeking which Adrian kindly passed onto me and he has allowed me to share it
Here is the reply from Söchting Biotechnik
Quote "
The catalyst inside pruduces oxygen for the pressure to push out H2O2 steadily.
The outside ceramic is also a catalyst and there part of the H2O2 get dossolved into
water and O2. But part of the H2O2 gets free into the water and oxidates,
and increase the Redox potential of the water - thats also important to increase water quality.
Kind Regards, Uwe"
Well that clears that up..... Well not exactly as a guy called Dan Underwood did some testing of peroxide residue in the DT and he found the following.
Quote
"Underwood, owner and operations of seahorsesource.com.
"As mentioned above, the Oxydators work by the catalyst reacting with the peroxide. This releases the gas inside the device and the gas O2 rises. As it expands. Using the recommend size oxydator and the recommended solution, I have not been able to get a peroxide reading in a tank. When I have increased the strength several times that of the recommendation, I did get peroxide readings.
I too have done peroxide dosing on tanks. Even when dosing 5 to 10 mg/L daily, I have found the Oxydator’s worked better. My guess is because they are constantly working in a slow regulated way”
Unfortunately Dan does not say how many times the recommendation of peroxide was needed to get a residue reading. My guess it was at least 3 times. My own experiments although hardly scientific show I had to go to around 18% to achieve a negative affect in the DT."
"The following was sent to me a while back. I asked Arian the importer and seller of Oxydators in the UK if he could get an answer for me to a question that had been bugging me about Oxydators and the release of peroxide into the DT.
A definitive answer to a long-running question about how the Oxydator dispenses is Oxygen/peroxide getting an answer from Söchting Biotechnik the makers of the Oxydator. I got the reply I had been seeking which Adrian kindly passed onto me and he has allowed me to share it
Here is the reply from Söchting Biotechnik
Quote "
The catalyst inside pruduces oxygen for the pressure to push out H2O2 steadily.
The outside ceramic is also a catalyst and there part of the H2O2 get dossolved into
water and O2. But part of the H2O2 gets free into the water and oxidates,
and increase the Redox potential of the water - thats also important to increase water quality.
Kind Regards, Uwe"
Well that clears that up..... Well not exactly as a guy called Dan Underwood did some testing of peroxide residue in the DT and he found the following.
Quote
"Underwood, owner and operations of seahorsesource.com.
"As mentioned above, the Oxydators work by the catalyst reacting with the peroxide. This releases the gas inside the device and the gas O2 rises. As it expands. Using the recommend size oxydator and the recommended solution, I have not been able to get a peroxide reading in a tank. When I have increased the strength several times that of the recommendation, I did get peroxide readings.
I too have done peroxide dosing on tanks. Even when dosing 5 to 10 mg/L daily, I have found the Oxydator’s worked better. My guess is because they are constantly working in a slow regulated way”
Unfortunately Dan does not say how many times the recommendation of peroxide was needed to get a residue reading. My guess it was at least 3 times. My own experiments although hardly scientific show I had to go to around 18% to achieve a negative affect in the DT."
That makes sense. There's a bunch of German? Shrimp breeder YouTube videos with DIY oxydator illustrations where they're not using ceramic beakers. In the videos a lot of the peroxide can be seen breaking up coming out of the container and of course shrimp climbing all over it.
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Good info mid thread to clear up any confusion. Setting the overdose issue aside I suppose to mimic the oxydator you could just sloooowww drip peroxide into your sump, measuring the drip rate in ml of course, and by the time it gets to the DT much of the peroxide would have broke down. Of course this could only be accomplished on larger systems.
Best to just buy the Oxydator. ;)
I started thinking about the claim that the ceramic pot acts as a catalyst, but I'm not buying it. The catalyst is silver, very common for working with peroxide. I thought I'd check the patent description and my assumption was right. It's just a peroxide doser using gas pressure, though still clever, the increased o2 is coming from in tank oxydization. Which makes sense. Peroxide kills algae, not oxygen.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US4784765A/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US4784765A/en
An aquarium oxygenator has a container inverted into the apex of a ceramic cone-shaped ceramic structure which rests on the floor of an aquarium. Hydrogen peroxide solution (15%) in the container is decomposed to form oxygen and water in the presence of a catalyst pellet of finely divided silver admixed with clay. Hydrogen peroxide seeps into the cone, and, in the absence of the catalyst, reacts with organic material in the water of the aquarium to produce oxygen which bubbles through an aperture in the side of the cone-shaped structure into the main body of water in the aquarium.
Firstly 15% peroxide is overly strong and may cause issues. Even the W pond version only recommends 12%
Secondly I have it direct from the company how the Oxydator works as per the answer to the question I asked them and posted above. Many people have questioned as to how Oxydators work. I will go with what the company have told me via the UK importer.
So, what are you suggesting, that the ceramic beaker dose not break any of the peroxide down after it's left the bottle but that all the peroxide enters the surrounding water?
I could see why an Oxydator would help clear up a bacterial bloom but so far most evidence is purely anecdotal in that I don't know of anybody using an Oxydator in their aquarium that has experienced a bacterial bloom nor used one to clear one up.
I have a problem with dripping liquids into the aquarium as the drip often stops or often slows down considerably in an uncontrolled manner. It is also fraught with danger.
Not familiar with that video however, most shrimp keepers use very low concentrations of peroxide typically 3% and one catalysts. Marine keepers tend to use much higher concentrations of peroxide and more catalysts all things considered of course. 3% peroxide administered directly into the aquarium is very quickly broken down into its component parts. Shrimp often congregate around the dispenser due to the higher oxygen level at that pointbI assume. I have never experienced this in any of my aquariums using Oxydators when placed in the DT. Most marine keepers put their Oxydator in the sump. If anybody with an Oxydator in their DT also housing shrimps can you please let us know if your shrimps tend to congregate on or around your Oxydator or not please?
SDK
Reef Diver
I’ve used them in my reef DT and my shrimp ignore them. I’ve also kept FW ornamental shrimp.
The main difference is most likely going to be flow. FW shrimp tanks are usually running only a trickle of air with a sponge or mattenfilter type setup. The shrimp like high levels of dissolved oxygen, but do not do well with high flow or turbulence.
In my reef display, the fine O2 bubbles coming out of the Oxydator have no chance to congregate in one area and create a localized zone of higher O2
The main difference is most likely going to be flow. FW shrimp tanks are usually running only a trickle of air with a sponge or mattenfilter type setup. The shrimp like high levels of dissolved oxygen, but do not do well with high flow or turbulence.
In my reef display, the fine O2 bubbles coming out of the Oxydator have no chance to congregate in one area and create a localized zone of higher O2
So the shrimp congregate immediately around where the peroxide exits the equipment suggesting it immediately turns to O2 rather than bath in the bleach which peroxide is. Thanks for that.
SDK
Reef Diver
Yes, in freshwater they are all over the Oxydator
I have four glass shrimp, a Skunk and Blood. When I dose peroxide, whether sump or DT the Skunk and Blood have no reaction, however the glass shrimp perk up and are much more lively. I am certain the oxygen is what makes the shrimp happier, not the peroxide.
What is also very interesting to see in the second video is the shrimps actually going into the Oxydator mini with obviously no adverse effect. I know the % of peroxide is low at 3% and will quickly turn to O2 and that even if the peroxide wasn't fully converted to its component parts it probably wouldn't damage them anyway. The shrimps certainly seem to enjoy the higher O2 content as it appears out of or around the Oxydator.
BTW the catalyst is not silver, it's ceramic with a small amount of silver added to it. The makers suggest the pot is made similar if with a small amount of silver added.
You can make a catalyst from pure silver, you just need a very small amount.
Personally no, however, I have read reports that they do help get rid of them. I have used the to help get rid of cyno and there are more reports of Oxydators being used to combat cyno.
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