APEX ATK keeps going to off position, looking for help to pin point why

[ESH]

For the past couple of days, my APEX ATK keeps switching to the off position. Typically, it will be set in Auto, and you can see it show as being listed as On or Off. It has worked for years, though sometimes I will randomly run into this problem. When this has occurred, it is because the low sensor was no longer submerged and the top-off water couldn't keep up. to fix it, I would manually top off to get the sensors back into position, then correct the switches and verify everything on the dashboard. Trying to trace down why this keeps getting to this point, I thought that maybe network interruptions were a possible source, causing some sort of communication lag issues between the cloud and the physical system, though Im not sure how to prove that and its only a theory. The idea is that when the optical sensors are "open", the message isn't getting passed to the ATK quick enough. Once it does, because of the slow message to start the top off process, the low sensor never closes and the pump shuts off, further adding to the problem. So because of this idea, I connected my APEX to CAT5 and shut off the wifi. It was working great for the past month and a half, and now it just doesn't seem to want to correct itself.
So I'm sitting here scratching my head and cannot seem to figure out what might be causing this.
We have had weird weather this week that could be a factor, going from 50-70 spring weather last week to colder temps and snow all week, though humidity levels in the house have been relatively the same so Im not sure there has been any increase in evaporation.
If my network lag theory is true, it should be noted that with our current global situation, both me and the wife are working from home, along with home schooling the kids now. So there is a significant increase in internet use.

Here are the current settings that Ive had for years. Maybe I need to extend the times? Total water volume is over 300gl, and the float valve is sitting in a red sea 750 return chamber sump.

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Swx8_1 OPEN Then ON
If Swx8_2 CLOSED Then OFF
When On > 010:00 Then OFF
Defer 000:10 Then ON
Defer 000:04 Then OFF
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

Thanks!

Also, might be worth noting all software is up to date for the APEX and all modules.

 

[GK3]

For the past couple of days, my APEX ATK keeps switching to the off position. Typically, it will be set in Auto, and you can see it show as being listed as On or Off. It has worked for years, though sometimes I will randomly run into this problem. When this has occurred, it is because the low sensor was no longer submerged and the top-off water couldn't keep up. to fix it, I would manually top off to get the sensors back into position, then correct the switches and verify everything on the dashboard. Trying to trace down why this keeps getting to this point, I thought that maybe network interruptions were a possible source, causing some sort of communication lag issues between the cloud and the physical system, though Im not sure how to prove that and its only a theory. The idea is that when the optical sensors are "open", the message isn't getting passed to the ATK quick enough. Once it does, because of the slow message to start the top off process, the low sensor never closes and the pump shuts off, further adding to the problem. So because of this idea, I connected my APEX to CAT5 and shut off the wifi. It was working great for the past month and a half, and now it just doesn't seem to want to correct itself.
So I'm sitting here scratching my head and cannot seem to figure out what might be causing this.
We have had weird weather this week that could be a factor, going from 50-70 spring weather last week to colder temps and snow all week, though humidity levels in the house have been relatively the same so Im not sure there has been any increase in evaporation.
If my network lag theory is true, it should be noted that with our current global situation, both me and the wife are working from home, along with home schooling the kids now. So there is a significant increase in internet use.

Here are the current settings that Ive had for years. Maybe I need to extend the times? Total water volume is over 300gl, and the float valve is sitting in a red sea 750 return chamber sump.

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Swx8_1 OPEN Then ON
If Swx8_2 CLOSED Then OFF
When On > 010:00 Then OFF
Defer 000:10 Then ON
Defer 000:04 Then OFF
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

Thanks!

Also, might be worth noting all software is up to date for the APEX and all modules.

Are you saying that your button on the fusion dashboard won’t stay in “auto” it just goes to off? Or are you saying that your ATO is set to auto but it never turns on and tops off?

 

[ESH]

It will not stay on auto. Keeps going to off like in this picture (ATK_8_1)

 

[User1]

Only time I've seen that happen on my system is when the water level is too low. In short, I'm bingo water top off so it shuts down to prevent it from burning up by running dry. So auto will go to off state.

 

[ESH]

Im wondering if theres a failed sensor. Both are currently submerged, but only the low one is showing closed. I did check them, nothing appeared on them but possibly had some film covering so I cleaned them off. Still no change with the higher sensor.

The top off container is a 55gl tank that remains full from the RODI constantly topping it off. I know the pump is working as when I turn the ATK switch to on it pumps water. It was also replaced with the newer pump in Feb.

 

[Kyl]

When statement is probably being triggered. Is it a v1 kit? If so the sensors are hit or miss, some being complete garbage for longevity. If it's out of warranty Neptune will just offer to sell you more sensors.

 

[Miller535]

Im wondering if theres a failed sensor. Both are currently submerged, but only the low one is showing closed. I did check them, nothing appeared on them but possibly had some film covering so I cleaned them off. Still no change with the higher sensor.

The top off container is a 55gl tank that remains full from the RODI constantly topping it off. I know the pump is working as when I turn the ATK switch to on it pumps water. It was also replaced with the newer pump in Feb.

I am betting that it's the low sensor. As a experiment, you could swap the two cables in the FMM, and see if it turns it back to auto and wait a min or two and see if it turns on.

 

[Miller535]

Even if that doesn't work, may be worth buying a sensor and replacing it. They are like $30, so you don't have much to lose.

 

[User1]

Im wondering if theres a failed sensor. Both are currently submerged, but only the low one is showing closed. I did check them, nothing appeared on them but possibly had some film covering so I cleaned them off. Still no change with the higher sensor.

The top off container is a 55gl tank that remains full from the RODI constantly topping it off. I know the pump is working as when I turn the ATK switch to on it pumps water. It was also replaced with the newer pump in Feb.

I believe you can put it into log mode and then see a report but I forget how to do that. Go ahead and send Neptune an email / support ticket this morning so they can see it when they get in. I'm sure they can dial that in. As I said the only time I had that happen to me is when the water was too low.

Oh - there was another time but it was with the older PMUP. I was using a 5 gallon bucket and didn't have a lid when I had this happen. Auto to off. Anyway at the same time I was going through a lot of top off water and couldn't figure out why. No leaks yet I was filling the bucket up 3 times a week. Took the PMUP base off and noticed some dog hair. Cleaned that all up and decided to pay attention to it more. Sure enough my German Shepherd found my top off container was was drinking all of the water out of it

Totally unrelated to your issue but was trying to think when I saw this problem but not sure it will help. Give Neptune a quick email though since it is still early.

 

[Miller535]

I believe you can put it into log mode and then see a report but I forget how to do that. Go ahead and send Neptune an email / support ticket this morning so they can see it when they get in. I'm sure they can dial that in. As I said the only time I had that happen to me is when the water was too low.

Oh - there was another time but it was with the older PMUP. I was using a 5 gallon bucket and didn't have a lid when I had this happen. Auto to off. Anyway at the same time I was going through a lot of top off water and couldn't figure out why. No leaks yet I was filling the bucket up 3 times a week. Took the PMUP base off and noticed some dog hair. Cleaned that all up and decided to pay attention to it more. Sure enough my German Shepherd found my top off container was was drinking all of the water out of it

Totally unrelated to your issue but was trying to think when I saw this problem but not sure it will help. Give Neptune a quick email though since it is still early.

If you click the gear next to the ATK on the dashboard it takes you to a settings page, where you can click and turn on logging. If you wish to have neptune help you, that is the first thing they are going to ask you to do.

 

[SuncrestReef]

It’s definitely the When timer causing it to change to OFF. Try the troubleshooting steps in my ATK tutorial to rule out several possible causes: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/neptu...torials-part-3-automatic-top-off-kit-atk.692/

 

[ESH]

Thanks again to everyone who helped out. I was able to speak with Neptune and after trouble shooting we determined the lower sensor had failed. The sensor is just over a year old, so don't think they will cover it but at least they are putting the support ticket in.

 

[Doctorgori]

Those sensors last about 1yr ..I keep a spare

 

[schuby]

The latest sensors are sealed much better, making them more reliable and longer lasting.

 

[DesertReefer51]

Is there a version number on the ATK's to verify it is an older version or the newer? I'm about to purchase one and would like to avoid this.

Thanks

 

[Tastee]

I’m not sure where it is inscribed on the parts but the current ATK is v2. I recently purchased one and also another PMUP and they are now orange where my original ATK v1 came with a black PMUP.

 

[Erick Armanii]

Wow that’s crazy and sad to hear if that’s the case! My tank has been up for about 4months and my atk randomly went to the OFF position and this is the atkv2

 

[Erick Armanii]

Was there a process you needed to do with neptunes?

 

[FortyFour44]

Mine will do that if the pmup times out. Based on this line of code below, it would take you 10min.

When On > 010:00 Then OFF