Apex or GHL?

Ditto

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Neptune Apex has that feature as well.

Its still relying on one single computer for everything. Even when using either GHL or Neptune, I never had a problem. Its that whole Murphys law thing :)

And that is the difference, you have a Choice with GHL. You do not have to have everything plugged into the controller to make it work. With Apex you must have a base unit to operate the modules that are connected to it. That not the same with GHL, you can have if you wish Stand Alone Dosers, Stand Alone Lighting, not controlled by the controller but still manufactured by GHL. Since they are all GHL devices independent of each other by choice you would not need 3 different apps to configure and monitor all the devices but 1 app along with the redundancy of the web interfaces on each device and cloud interface and last the legacy Windows Desktop USB connection. Again you have a choice, how much or how little you wish to integrate with the controller.

The design internally of both Apex and GHL are different when it comes to the controller. GHL manufactures in house, they have videos of them printing the circuit boards for there devices Neptune does not. GHL continues to back support devices without having to purchase a new controller when something new comes out. Example the KH Director could connect to the Profilux 3.1 devices they did not have to purchase the new P4. GHL also continues to support the European market in each release of there products not alienating a portion of the market, so when something comes out they already have all the different power configurations for the device on day 1.

2.5 years ago you really had to hunt for the information on the features and differences between GHL and Neptune systems today a wealth of knowledge exist on both which helps people decided which controller is best for them :) .
 

aqua_code

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last I heard is mindstream is planning on its own controller and doesn't have interest in integration. What products are Apex ready that aren't 1-10v controlled besides vortech powerheads?
Last I read mindstream has Zigbee protocol built in and are speaking with neptune, but haven't made any decisions. I haven't read anything on them building their own controller. You could likely see a zigbee module come out in the future. GHL would have to provide the same module.

It's not that products release as "Apex ready" but it provides several integration endpoints. You can see this as an example on aquaticlog where people are able to send their data from the XML files. I believe GHL forces you to use "The Logbook" and doesn't easily expose this data. Another integration that's possible now is Amazon Alexa reading your data from the cloud. Also cameras and HTML5 media streams.

Lightyears ahead is very subjective statement by the one poster
I stand by my "lightyears" comment because it's very difficult for companies to build out this whole web interface. Apex has spent years of development to get it to this point. GHL will have to spend a bunch of money to release a competitive web product and it won't happen overnight.

They are trying to build out this as the competitive web interface. Even the meta data screams of outsourcing:

The more integration points/endpoints the software has the more success it will have in the future. That's why raspberry pi is technically the best, but it's just too much overhead for the regular user to setup. It's an age old debate that's played out everyday in the open source world.
 
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ingchr1

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I got in to this hobby last year and knew nothing of GHL or Apex. My last tank was a fish only with reverse flow under gravel twenty years ago. I researched both and decided on GHL. But, I didn't want to spend that much money on a controller. So this also ruled out the new Apex as well. I strated looking at the Profilux 3.1 and Apex Classic since both were on sale to clear out the old models. The Apex was the least expensive, so I ordered one. Then the timing was perfect and a NIB P4 Ultimate Set with extra Powerbar came up for sale in the for sale section of the forum at a price that couldn't be passed up. So I snagged that up as quickly as I could. The Apex Classic got sent back and I ended up with what I really wanted in the first place.

I really like the controller and don't find it difficult to use at all. It's all drop down menus. With whatever you decide there is going to be a learning curve. I like having the multiple ways to interface with the controller. Desktop software (GCC), web interface, MyGHL and apps. Not all features have been replicated outside of GCC, but most have. My only difficulties have been with updating the web interface and Wi-Fi firmware. There's some outdated and updated info out there on how to perform those.

My opinion of GHL is that's a step above hobby grade. I'd have no problem going out and getting another if I needed one. In fact I did just that for my 15 gallon tank, got the Profilux Mini Wi-Fi.
 

James77

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And that is the difference, you have a Choice with GHL. You do not have to have everything plugged into the controller to make it work. With Apex you must have a base unit to operate the modules that are connected to it. That not the same with GHL, you can have if you wish Stand Alone Dosers, Stand Alone Lighting, not controlled by the controller but still manufactured by GHL. Since they are all GHL devices independent of each other by choice you would not need 3 different apps to configure and monitor all the devices but 1 app along with the redundancy of the web interfaces on each device and cloud interface and last the legacy Windows Desktop USB connection. Again you have a choice, how much or how little you wish to integrate with the controller.

The design internally of both Apex and GHL are different when it comes to the controller. GHL manufactures in house, they have videos of them printing the circuit boards for there devices Neptune does not. GHL continues to back support devices without having to purchase a new controller when something new comes out. Example the KH Director could connect to the Profilux 3.1 devices they did not have to purchase the new P4. GHL also continues to support the European market in each release of there products not alienating a portion of the market, so when something comes out they already have all the different power configurations for the device on day 1.

2.5 years ago you really had to hunt for the information on the features and differences between GHL and Neptune systems today a wealth of knowledge exist on both which helps people decided which controller is best for them :) .


Absolutely....I have the GHL Mitras 7200's and the standalone doser, both of which I love. The programming has a bit of a learning curve, but its just highly customizable.

I just don't like everything relying on one controller. Like if you even had the GHL ProfiluxController running "dumb" dosers, heaters, and lighting...I would rather not. Chances of it failing are minimal but its better (IMO) to have all stuff separate and controlled.
 

James77

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My only difficulties have been with updating the web interface and Wi-Fi firmware. There's some outdated and updated info out there on how to perform those.


My issues with the GHL tend to be connection ones. The USB is easiest, but I am still struggling with the WiFI setup of both the Mitras and Doser. But that has also got to do with network crap and whatnot.

The programming is actually quite easy once you get the hang of it.
 
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kyley

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Hi All,
Thanks for all the helpful responses! Sorry I've been busy and just now getting a chance to respond. A few comments inline below. But first, I think I'm going to give the Apex a try (since I already have it and would have to sell it and pay quite a bit more for a new GHL). If I see some issues that might be better with the GHL, I'll stop and look into it more. That said, if money were of no concern at all, and I didn't already have the Apex, I'd probably choose GHL.

One thing that concerns me is that I look at the reviews on BulkReefSupply, and there's a whole lot of 1 stars from people that have had (some big) issues recently. :( I don't see that from GHL (granted, I don't see a lot of reviews on a website like BRS - since they aren't on BRS)...

Really tougher question with already having an Apex and why move from what you have. Largely it comes down to how you like the interface to be honest but to answer some of your questions:
...
I don't believe that either can control Jabeo dosers. That said, GHL can control 16 individual pump heads in it's ecosystem.

I just bought the Apex used, so it isn't something I've even setup yet. So I thought that if GHL would be way better, now would be the time before I spend time getting the Apex setup.

I planned on getting the Jebao WiFi doser. The system I bought came with the DOS as well. But, that's a giant beast, it's only two heads (granted, that's all I plan to use for now), and it's expensive (I can sell it and get the Jebao and have over $150 leftover still). But, would that be a terrible decision? What "control" over the DOS does the Apex provide that I wouldn't / might not get with the Jebao?

I have owned both, and both are great controllers. I would lean towards Neptune though. GHL has the upper hand with quality and reliability, Neptune is not far behind. Factor in the price, and Neptune is in reach of far more people.

That's one of the big things for me... It's a much bigger user base and would be easier to get support from others that have already figured out my problems. :)

I think the comments that either would be a fine choice is correct, though I’ve no regrets about choosing Neptune. I’ve had a few issues along the way, but nothing major. I’d be hard pressed to make a cogent argument for spending the $$ to move to GHL.

Agreed, thanks.

One will be the clear winner purely because of mass adoption, most likely apex.

I do however like the ghl dosers better, I for the life of me can't image why they would design these oddly shaped dos or trident other than aesthetics. I'm sure I'm not alone in space being at a premium, and trying to find space for these funky looking things just isn't going to happen for most hobbyists.

Agreed on both. I have the DOS, but will probably sell it. It's huge and I have limited space (and there's a lot of money in it and the Jebao WiFi doser looks pretty nice with an app to control it). Granted, I'm sure it doesn't compare to the GHL doser, but there's not that much to spinning a wheel to add Alk/Ca...

Thanks again for all your help!
--Kyle
 

Sisterlimonpot

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Neptune is lightyears ahead with their web interface, APP, and the number of modules IMO.
Because ^^ this.

I have a love/hate relationship with my apex, with that said, I wouldn't drop it for a GHL. The little that I've seen with GHL it seems antiquated like it was platformed on 90s technology (that's just first impressions).

I really like the versatility of the Apex. Using virtual outlets opens up so many unique opportunities. Curious if the GHL has something similar??



One thing that concerns me is that I look at the reviews on BulkReefSupply, and there's a whole lot of 1 stars from people that have had (some big) issues recently.
Peer to peer reviews have to be met with a level of skepticism, how many of those 1 stars have an ax to grind?
 

vangvace

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@kyley seems like well thought out decisions.

For the DOS versus Jebao. Alarms when things go wrong, pump head life, and flexibility of functions would favor the DOS. To be fair, I am not familiar with the wifi options on the Jebao.
The DOS, like GHL's Maxi, can be used for automatic waterchanges in addition to dosing things.

@Sisterlimonpot GHL does virtual probes versus outlets. Same end result, different path to get there. I prefer the ghl phone and desktop apps to their web interface. They are similar, but the former gives more programming control.
 

smartwater101

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Search through these forums for people who have actually used both. It's pretty clear that GHL is the brand people lean towards. Considering Neptune's terrible build quality, reliability issues, playschool design, and wishy washy customer service, it's not really a surprise. GHL has the crown for reliability and the fact you don't actually need a controller, to use many of their products, is a major benefit.

Both have their benefits and negatives of course. GHL has a lot of growing to do in terms of software design, but the major point is not many people have used products from both.
 
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smartwater101

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for the life of me can't image why they would design these oddly shaped dos or trident other than aesthetics


Most of Neptune's products look like they were created by a first-year industrial design student. It baffles me as well.

My DOS makes me both laugh and shake my fist at the sky. "Why do you look like that!!??"
 

smartwater101

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One thing that concerns me is that I look at the reviews on BulkReefSupply, and there's a whole lot of 1 stars from people that have had (some big) issues recently. :( I don't see that from GHL (granted, I don't see a lot of reviews on a website like BRS - since they aren't on BRS)

Another thing to bare in mind, is that BRS and Neptune have been in bed with each other for a long time. It's certainly been beneficial for both, and they're both companies looking to make $ so I can't be too upset about it. But this hobby is small and that sort of thing just helps breed fanboyism and further suffocates the competition.
 

aqua_code

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Thought this post was funny:
I wish I had never bought a ghl controller, you need a degree in computing just to connect your pc to it wirelessly, what a joke. most expensive piece of junk ive ever bought.

 

vangvace

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Thought this post was funny:



That is funny, to balance it out though he also had issues understanding you can set up multiple alerts. Sad he is leaving the hobby to be honest
 

Silver14SS

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Most of Neptune's products look like they were created by a first-year industrial design student. It baffles me as well.

My DOS makes me both laugh and shake my fist at the sky. "Why do you look like that!!??"

A lot of the Neptune products look to me as if they were made by Fisher-Price, not my preferred look but I'm sure some love the orange.

I've had both, currently have GHL with no intentions of switching back to Apex. My programming is pretty basic, I don't really use it for more than a fancy timer, temperature control, and probes. GHL has never failed to turn equipment back on after feed or maintenance mode, it happened a couple times with Apex where I'd notice the next day the skimmer was still off. GHL probes seem to be less prone to unexplained swings, no bizarre readings with salinity.

GHL wireless has been great, no issues reconnecting to wifi or myGHL. Programming is no issue with either, just preference between writing or copy/pasting code vs. drop down menus.

Biggest advantage for Apex is it's availability. Just about every online retailer has them and most LFS have some of the components as well.
 

Joedubyk

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I love my Neptune Apex, Trident and DOS pumps. No experience with GHL , sorry. As others have mentioned, this will be a debate forever, just like which lights are the best...........
 

Sisterlimonpot

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Thought this post was funny:


You can almost interchange that from GHL to Apex. I got extremely frustrated with initial wife connectivity. To the point I was ready to "roll camera" and destroy the apex.
 

AZMSGT

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Thought this post was funny:


I gotta say, it really depends on the person. Many many people tried to help that person out. Me included. The GHL support section is littered with their postings. However some people just don't want to learn or just can't get some things. Nothing against them. But that was a tough person to help.
 

porter_painter

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The little that I've seen with GHL it seems antiquated like it was platformed on 90s technology (that's just first impressions).

While this comment may have been true 2 or 3 years ago, I don't think it's the case now. As someone who has owned both Apex and GHL I would say that now GHL is still behind in the software stakes, but there is no gaping chasm between the two systems.

I would actually say that Apex users must 'code' more when moving beyond the basic controller functions than with a GHL. Apex web interface still looks nicer imo, but (also imo) too many apex's go bang so I'd never entrust my tank to one.
 
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