Apex warning (and tank emergency)

[MnFish1]

SO - I have had a tank with an apex set up for 3 years. Have a generator (natural gas) Left on vacation yesterday - No alerts from apex. Get a call from the house sitter - the water in the tank seems 'cold'. She failed to mention that none of the pumps or lights were working. Eventually got those details out of her. Needless to say there was power to the apex and ebb, the outlet was working there was no power outage (i.e. none of the clocks were reset in the rest of the house). Fusion was connected. No firmware was updated. Nothing was touched on the apex. Looking at the lights on the apex - all of the lights were the correct colors - including on the EBB. All of the connections were tight.

Needless to say - the temp in the tank was down to 71, there were 2 dead fish (gold flake angel and an anther). Plugging the equipment into a regular outlet (ie removing the equipment from the Apex Energy Bar) And plugging all of the equipment into a new surge suppressor resulted in all of the equipment turning on and working correctly. It seems that the Energy bar failed somehow - but the apex thought everything was ok.

This has also been reported on the Neptune systems board. Why do these things always happen when you're on vacation...?

Im assuming I will be coming home to dead SPS and probably more dead fish. I have relied less and less on my apex controller - using it only to plug things into and monitor the tank (ph, temp, etc) - I let the lights and max gyre run with their own equipment rather than rely on the apex modules. This is the third Apex failure I've had - never again.

Edited to clarify that the changing from the energy bar to a surge suppressor plugged into the same outlet left all the equipment working. Unplugging the apex and ebb and resetting and again trying to plug anything into the ebb resulted in no power to that device despite it being listed is on I. Fusion. I left all the equipment on the surge suppressor without the apex and everything is workibg

 

[SPR1968]

Sorry to hear about this and your correct everything works prefect while your home and and soon as you go away.....

I only use Apex to monitor and control things that shouldn’t always be ‘on’ like skimmers, ATO etc., everything else like main return pump, relies on its own components and directly into its own wall sockets. I know computers can fail.

I really hope it all works out well for you and the tank.

 

[shred5]

That really stinks.
It is a piece of electronics and they sometimes fail.

I have heard of outlets failing on the power bars before but that does not seem to be what happened.

 

[DSC reef]

Sorry to hear this @MnFish1

 

[TheHarold]

I don't quite understand. You are saying that everything was powered and working correctly, yet all of the outlets were in the "off" position? Or that they said "on" in fusion, but were all actually off?

 

[speedstar]

That is a bummer sorry for your losses.
I thought the Apex measured power useage of the devices on the power bar, shouldn't it have notified on a no amperage draw for an "on" piece of equipment

 

[srusso]

SO - I have had a tank with an apex set up for 3 years. Have a generator (natural gas) Left on vacation yesterday - No alerts from apex. Get a call from the house sitter - the water in the tank seems 'cold'. She failed to mention that none of the pumps or lights were working. Eventually got those details out of her. Needless to say there was power to the apex and ebb, the outlet was working there was no power outage (i.e. none of the clocks were reset in the rest of the house). Fusion was connected. No firmware was updated. Nothing was touched on the apex. Looking at the lights on the apex - all of the lights were the correct colors - including on the EBB. All of the connections were tight.

Needless to say - the temp in the tank was down to 71, there were 2 dead fish (gold flake angel and an anther). Plugging the equipment into a regular outlet (ie removing the equipment from the Apex Energy Bar) (a couple surge suppressors) resulted in all of the equipment turning on and working correctly. It seems that the Energy bar failed somehow - but the apex thought everything was ok.

This has also been reported on the Neptune systems board. Why do these things always happen when you're on vacation...?

Im assuming I will be coming home to dead SPS and probably more dead fish. I have relied less and less on my apex controller - using it only to plug things into and monitor the tank (ph, temp, etc) - I let the lights and max gyre run with their own equipment rather than rely on the apex modules. This is the third Apex failure I've had - never again.

Could it be dirty power that is the issue? Knock on wood, I have had the Classic for a long time and its always worked as designed. Really sucks and I hope the best for you. Maybe worth looking into it?

 

[TheHarold]

That is a bummer sorry for your losses.
I thought the Apex measured power useage of the devices on the power bar, shouldn't it have notified on a no amperage draw for an "on" piece of equipment

If that was set by the user- if it was programmed well. If not, many do not know to have those error conditions/notifications programmed.

You need in your advanced programming "If Output Heater Amps < .5 then on"

Apex will not give you that alarm if it is manually set to auto or is turned off via programming, but apex will alarm if it is supposed to be on and not pulling power. From the manual:

"Alarms for Amps and Watts values for each individual 120VAC EB832 output should be configured using the new method via the Inputs page in APEX Local or APEX Fusion. However, should you want to use Amps and Watts values in other output programming, there are new programming commands to support this.



Syntax: If Output output-name (Amps/Watts) (</>) Then (ON/OFF)

Examples:

• If Output Heater Amps < 3.0 Then ON
• If Output Return Watts > 80 Then ON

Important Note: As the Apex evaluates and executes programming, these new alarm options and programming statements will be ignored if the specified output is manually OFF or the output is in AUTO and the output state is OFF due to programming. This behavior prevents false alarms about low watts or amps when an EB832 output is OFF.

As an example, let’s say that you have your return pump output programmed to turn the pump off while FeedA is active (If FeedA 000 Then OFF). You would not want an alarm about your return pump drawing 0 watts while your FeedA Cycle is active and the return pump is shut off. A watts reading of 0 is normal while the return pump is OFF in this case, so the Apex takes this into account, and will not trigger an alarm because the watts measurement is expected to be zero.

This new functionality is for the EnergyBar832 only; it is not available with EB8, EB4, or EB6"

 

[MnFish1]

I don't quite understand. You are saying that everything was powered and working correctly, yet all of the outlets were in the "off" position? Or that they said "on" in fusion, but were all actually off?

No everything looked ‘normal’ on the apex and ebb everything was on ‘auto’ on fusion. But there was no power when the equipment was plugged into the energy bar. Ie the lights didn’t work the pimps didn’t work etc. unplugging the equipment and plugging them into a multi outlet in the same outlet the energybar was plugged into and all of the equipment worked fine

 

[TheHarold]

No everything looked ‘normal’ on the apex and ebb everything was on ‘auto’ on fusion. But there was no power when the equipment was plugged into the energy bar. Ie the lights didn’t work the pimps didn’t work etc. unplugging the equipment and plugging them into a multi outlet in the same outlet the energybar was plugged into and all of the equipment worked fine

And then what is the status of the eb8 that seems to have failed? Is it working now?

 

[MnFish1]

Additionally the equipment plugged into the other outlet ie in the wall the second outlet next to where the

If that was set by the user- if it was programmed well. If not, many do not know to have those error conditions/notifications programmed.

it didn’t matter the apex didn’t send an alert at all even when the temp dropped to 71. And that was programmed. The only alert I received was the. I had my house sitter unplug the apex and plug in a new surge suppressor then I got multiple messages saying apex was disconnected from fusion

 

[MnFish1]

And then what is the status of the eb8 that seems to have failed? Is it working now?

No unplugging it resetting apex etc there is no power coming from the energy bar even with everything set on

 

[TheHarold]

Additionally the equipment plugged into the other outlet ie in the wall the second outlet next to where the

it didn’t matter the apex didn’t send an alert at all even when the temp dropped to 71. And that was programmed. The only alert I received was the. I had my house sitter unplug the apex and plug in a new surge suppressor then I got multiple messages saying apex was disconnected from fusion

Oh, this actually clears it up a bit. This has to do with fallback states. Apex lost power and or connection to fusion, for some reason, and the outlets turned off.

Reading your post again- "unplug the apex and plug in a new surge suppressor". Then it worked? So at fault was a bad surge suppressor that cut power to apex, so tank had no power, and you had no warning because you did not have apex heartbeat set or another way to notify you that power was off.


I am confused because it appears you are saying different things.

No unplugging it resetting apex etc there is no power coming from the energy bar even with everything set on

^This means that the apex bar is still not working.

I had my house sitter unplug the apex and plug in a new surge suppressor then I got multiple messages saying apex was disconnected from fusion

^This means that the apex bar was working once you replaced the surge protector- that the system did not have power due to surge suppressor, and eb8 was working fine.


I do not mean to take away from the sadness of losing your tank, it absolutely sucks. Just trying to help get to the root of what caused the issue.

 

[MnFish1]

Oh, this actually clears it up a bit. This has to do with fallback states. Apex lost power and or connection to fusion, for some reason, and the outlets defaulted to their "fallbback off" condition.

Reading your post again- "unplug the apex and plug in a new surge suppressor". Then it worked? So at fault was a bad surge suppressor that cut power to apex, outlets went to their fallback state of OFF, and you had no warning because you did not have apex heartbeat set or another way to notify you that power was off.


I am confused because it appears you are saying different things.

^This means that the apex bar is still not working.



^This means that the apex bar was working once you replaced the surge protector- that the system did not have power due to surge suppressor, and eb8 was working fine.


I do not mean to take away from the sadness of losing your tank, it absolutely sucks. Just trying to help get to the root of what caused the issue.

The fall back for all the outlets is on. Not off. The energybar still has no power in any of the outlets even though they are all set to on. Unfortunatetly you didn’t solve the problem. Additionally there was no power outage. Additionally you’re misunderstanding. The apex was not plugged into anything but the wall outlet. I unplugged the apex and tried plugging the equipment into a regular surge suppressor and everything worked. The problem was the apex. Additionally the apex only disconnected from fusion when I completely unplugged it myself. That’s when I got my first and only alert. The apex has gone through a couple times when the power has been shut off and this never happened. It’s not a problem with programming. The electricity. The wall outlet or anything else

 

[Amoo]

Am I missing the part of this post that is a tank emergency, in the tank emergency forum that we're supposed to be helping with? Sounds like the problem was solved before this thread was made and the OP wanted to vent about his Apex EB8 failing?

 

[MnFish1]

Am I missing the part of this post that is a tank emergency, in the tank emergency forum that we're supposed to be helping with? Sounds like the problem was solved before this thread was made and the OP wanted to vent about his Apex EB8 failing?

Actually I wanted some suggestions on how to correct the problem. Ie troobleshoot. Also any suggestions as to what to do about the fish. The op also wanted to warn others about this problem. Thanks @Amoo foenhelping me clarify. By the way I’m out of the state so I can’t really give a comment as to how many deaths there are today some advice as to what to tell my house sitter to do would be helpful. The problem is not solved. By the way I thought you were ignoring my posts lol please do so

 

[TheHarold]

Alas, the inconsistency in your statements as the story changes leads me to believe that I will be unable able to provide assistance. I am not sure why you are constantly changing what happened.






Statement 1A:

I had my house sitter unplug the apex and plug in a new surge suppressor then I got multiple messages saying apex was disconnected from fusion

Statement 1B:

Additionally the apex only disconnected from fusion when I completely unplugged it myself. That’s when I got my first and only alert.

So are you your housekeeper?

Statement 2A:

No unplugging it resetting apex etc there is no power coming from the energy bar even with everything set on

Statement 2B:

I had my house sitter unplug the apex and plug in a new surge suppressor then I got multiple messages saying apex was disconnected from fusion

If moving devices from a wall outlet to a surge protector fixed the issue, then the device is clearly not the issue.



"Fall back for all outlets is on"


^even your heater? You had your heater set to stay on if it loses communication? Thats an easy way to cook your fish.

TL;DR: changing story, impossible to assist in diagnosis but it appears that there are more factors at play than a simple device failure,.

 

[Amoo]

Actually I wanted some suggestions on how to correct the problem. Ie troobleshoot. Also any suggestions as to what to do about the fish. The op also wanted to warn others about this problem. Thanks @Amoo foenhelping me clarify. By the way I’m out of the state so I can’t really give a comment as to how many deaths there are today some advice as to what to tell my house sitter to do would be helpful. The problem is not solved. By the way I thought you were ignoring my posts lol please do so

I'm reading through your OP again and looking for where you asked a question. If you're looking for help with something ask it, as that is what this forum is for. Do you need an alternate means of controlling your heaters, do you need your housekeeper to set your heaters manually? What are you asking for help with?

 

[MnFish1]

Alas, the inconsistency in your statements as the story changes leads me to believe that I will be unable able to provide assistance. I am not sure why you are constantly changing what happened.






Statement 1A:



Statement 1B:



So are you your housekeeper?

Statement 2A:



Statement 2B:



If moving devices from a wall outlet to a surge protector fixed the issue, then the device is clearly not the issue.

Actually you just misread. I said the first notice I got from apex was when my house sitter unplugged the apex. I got no temp or other alert. I also said that plugging the equipment back into the ebb which has all the light on functioning position still does not have power. So this definitely suggests a problem with the device

 

[Amoo]

Have you tried resetting the entire Apex unit itself?