Aquarium and electrical safety

[BZOFIQ]

...

Extension cord and plug-in type GFCI adaptors are often more prone t nuisance tripping. They are typically set to the lower end of UL 943 (closer to 4 mA) and often often more sensitive (not a bad thing) to transients than dedicated NEC approved devices. Also many "trip" when unplugged to prevent a power tool from coming back on after a power failure.

These are also bad for the hobby in that they have to be reset every time you temporarily lose power.

 

[mcarroll]

Knock on wood, I haven't had a problem with my permanent GFCI's. They are each on dedicated breakers with one additional set of regular outlets "downstream" in the same gang box. (Not an electrician, nor the installer...in case I described it wrong. LOL) But utilization is low too, so we'll see how it goes as I ramp things up.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You can get around it by either installing multiple circuits or splitting a single circuit into multiple GFCI outlets (not inline). If One trips the others will continue working.

Here is one way.

Additionally, you can monitor for tripped outlets using your controller.

Here is drawing I made years ago that may show the setup a but clearer.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Here is drawing I made years ago that may show the setup a but clearer.

Yup, I just grabbed a quick diagram off google.

I went one step further and installed a bank of remote GFCI switches on the wall few feet from the tank so that I don't have to fiddle with GFCI buttons underneath the stand.

http://url.xoomer.com/gfci

 

[mcarroll]

Yup, I just grabbed a quick diagram off google.

I went one step further and installed a bank of remote GFCI switches on the wall few feet from the tank so that I don't have to fiddle with GFCI buttons underneath the stand.

http://url.xoomer.com/gfci

Interesting – GFCI for something that doesn't need an outlet.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Interesting – GFCI for something that doesn't need an outlet.

Or for an outlet away from where that GFCI is - a more convenient location for when an electrical panel is too far away.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yup, I just grabbed a quick diagram off google.

I went one step further and installed a bank of remote GFCI switches on the wall few feet from the tank so that I don't have to fiddle with GFCI buttons underneath the stand.

http://url.xoomer.com/gfci

Yes - those are nice. Remote GFCI receptacles are a PITA.

 

[Freenow54]

You never want current to “pass through you”. Being “grounded” or “floating” does not change the danger, it just changes the possible current path.

Insulated shoes or not, sticking a 9v battery on your tongue creates a circuit across your tongue between the terminals, it tingles or is painful. Standing on concrete barefoot or with insulated shoes doesn’t change the current path. The battery is a floating reference, current can only flow between its terminals, unless the negative terminal is tied to ground.

Insulated shoes. Touching hot only, no current flows. Touch neutral with another part of the body and current flows and you get shocked.

If feet are not insulated, touching hot will shock you as current flows through you to ground.

Both are “complete” circuits.

I don’t want to delve any further into floating and bonded or isolated systems, as they are beyond the scope of a simple conversation and the bottom line here is general safety.

That is exactly what I said " bare skin " I also did not want to complicate things. Touching anything to complete a circuit is not good unless you want to talk about high voltage that will blow parts off you. I also stated it is a fraction of an amp that can kill you . The point is clear don't mess with electricity and be as safe as you can. Pretty simple.

 

[spsick]

I wear armpit length nitrile gloves whenever I am working in the tank. Aside of course from GFCI and grounded titanium heater, I wonder if these minimize how conductive I am? (Assuming no damage to gloves).

Counting on it to save me? Certainly no. But is it extra insurance on top of other safety equipment?

 

[BZOFIQ]

There is something else I did on my most recent build that is very simple...

I notched faceplates at the bottom for drainage, then siliconed them to the wall.

I then installed outlet covers rated for outside/wet locations.

 

[Freenow54]

It is safe ONLY with a gfci or equivalent.

Stray voltage can be caused by many things. I have experienced a power head losing its intrinsically safe insulation. Gave me a good jolt. Then a voltage source is present creating a " potential difference from the water to any ground. The anode you see completes the circuit to ground in you receptacle completing a circuit. I have always wondered if you could still create a parallel circuit if you will to make another circuit Personally don't know perhaps I will ask my master electrician friend. I don't trust it to save me but it may. I will try to explain a GFI . Say you have an electric lawn mower . You are using an extension cord. The cord insulation is cracked letting a bare wire be exposed. The voltage wants to reach the load being the mower motor. It succeeds . now a measurable amperage ( force ) is created by the load . The bigger the load the higher the amperage. Just say the load is 20 amps, and you are on a 15 amp circuit. The breaker will pop because of the over load. In this case the wire is protected from over heating. Back to the story when the voltage is returned on the neutral wire after the mower it leaks to ground. This creates a measurable difference between the amps on the black to the motor, and the white coming back from the motor. The Ground fault indicator senses this and trips. There are small holes in this examination that some may pick apart destroying the entire point but in essence that is what a GFI does. If you complete a circuit from the water to ground you are not part of the GFI circuit ( you are upstream ) it does not sense any difference in this case

 

[Freenow54]

I wear armpit length nitrile gloves whenever I am working in the tank. Aside of course from GFCI and grounded titanium heater, I wonder if these minimize how conductive I am? (Assuming no damage to gloves).

Counting on it to save me? Certainly no. But is it extra insurance on top of other safety equipment?

If you want to know and are familiar with a multi meter put it on ohms and check yourself across different parts of you

 

[Freenow54]

You never want current to “pass through you”. Being “grounded” or “floating” does not change the danger, it just changes the possible current path.

Insulated shoes or not, sticking a 9v battery on your tongue creates a circuit across your tongue between the terminals, it tingles or is painful. Standing on concrete barefoot or with insulated shoes doesn’t change the current path. The battery is a floating reference, current can only flow between its terminals, unless the negative terminal is tied to ground.

Insulated shoes. Touching hot only, no current flows. Touch neutral with another part of the body and current flows and you get shocked.

If feet are not insulated, touching hot will shock you as current flows through you to ground.

Both are “complete” circuits.

I don’t want to delve any further into floating and bonded or isolated systems, as they are beyond the scope of a simple conversation and the bottom line here is general safety.

Obvious if you create a circuit with your tongue then it is just through your tongue It is evident you have done this

 

[Reefer Matt]

Stray voltage can be caused by many things. I have experienced a power head losing its intrinsically safe insulation. Gave me a good jolt. Then a voltage source is present creating a " potential difference from the water to any ground. The anode you see completes the circuit to ground in you receptacle completing a circuit. I have always wondered if you could still create a parallel circuit if you will to make another circuit Personally don't know perhaps I will ask my master electrician friend. I don't trust it to save me but it may. I will try to explain a GFI . Say you have an electric lawn mower . You are using an extension cord. The cord insulation is cracked letting a bare wire be exposed. The voltage wants to reach the load being the mower motor. It succeeds . now a measurable amperage ( force ) is created by the load . The bigger the load the higher the amperage. Just say the load is 20 amps, and you are on a 15 amp circuit. The breaker will pop because of the over load. In this case the wire is protected from over heating. Back to the story when the voltage is returned on the neutral wire after the mower it leaks to ground. This creates a measurable difference between the amps on the black to the motor, and the white coming back from the motor. The Ground fault indicator senses this and trips. There are small holes in this examination that some may pick apart destroying the entire point but in essence that is what a GFI does. If you complete a circuit from the water to ground you are not part of the GFI circuit ( you are upstream ) it does not sense any difference in this case

I think people are confused between induced voltage and a short.

 

[tripdad]

While balancing load to the panel is important, I would recommend that if you are going to use 2 or 3 branch circuit breakers for redundancy, that they be on the same leg. This limits fault voltage potential to 110V.

This is a nugget right there! While I do run two circuits I balanced the load never thinking about the multiplier effect. Thank you!!

 

[alkatraz]

.

 

[Luisn17]

Hello everyone,

My house is fairly new, 2 years old, the breakers are all GCFI protected. I found it odd it but now I feel “safer”. How much protection do they give?

I did install a GCFI to one outlet in the tank, the second outlet was in series with something else and exceeded my electrical knowledge. I left it alone.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I think people are confused between induced voltage and a short.

Yes they are. The subject is complicated in that the concepts and terminology all require understanding of electrical theory.

Induced voltages can certainly create danger as well. In fact, the voltage coming from the power plant is induced.

The differentiator is both semantic and based on the current capability of what is inducing the voltage. Low impedance induced sources (like a generator) can supply substantial current, while high impedance induced sources (such as stray magnetic coupling between wires) produce voltage but very little current.

 

[Reefering1]

Special thanks to @BeanAnimal for explaining this all to everyone!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Most experts I know will not use GFCI's on tanks because they tend to trip for no reason when folks are away and then the whole tank is killed.

Can you (or someone) talk about why this happens and how it can be avoided?

(I know a little about why, but not enough to explain it. It's important and usually gets glossed over along with the stray voltage issue, so if someone in the know could address both it would be great.)

FWIW, in 30 years, I never got a false trip. I’ve had lots of real trips from faulty equipment.