Are brute trash cans really chemically safe?

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

OK, I assumed it was a Brute, but in any case, i don't think it likely either of those came from the can. Lithium is not a concern at that level, IMO.

 

[Potential]

OK, we can explore those hypotheses.

First, pure water (like RO/DI) is NOT "corrosive" to plastics or organics. That is a simple misuse of the term. Organic matter does not dissolve into pure water any better than it does into tap water. That is different , perhaps, than some metals. Don't let the metal terminology move into plastics.

If carcinogenic fillers, such as stabilizers or colorants, were in Brute cans (why would they be? seems crazy, there are plenty of noncarcinogenic and nontoxic materials around for this purpose)), they could not be labeled for food contact, regardless of the type of water that is contacting them.

Doe anything leach from brute cans? Sure. There are likely mold release agents on the plastic surface, and perhaps some UV stabilizers in the plastic, along with bird poop and anything else it acquired while sitting in a Home Depot.

Definitely warrants a warm water wash, preferably with some soap.

But I and many others have used many of these cans (my system used more than a dozen at leak for sumps, RO/DI, refugia, limewater, new salt water etc. for 20 years) without any evidence that the were a problem.


There are many suppliers of colored food and medical grades of polypropylene.

I have noticed a smell in the brute 55g can after a few months also manufacturers use cheaper products as time passes and also maybe there’s a chemical component that the ICP test doesn’t detect this hobby is too expensive not to spend the extra money and buy appropriate supplies why would item made for trash be used for anything else

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have noticed a smell in the brute 55g can after a few months also manufacturers use cheaper products as time passes and also maybe there’s a chemical component that the ICP test doesn’t detect this hobby is too expensive not to spend the extra money and buy appropriate supplies why would item made for trash be used for anything else

It’s certainly a fine plan to use something else if it concerns you. Aside from users not reporting problems, there’s no good way to prove they are safe since we cannot know what additives might be put into them.

I personally would still use them unless there’s some reason I see not to. The plastic itself is perfectly safe long term. The only question is additives, and food or medical grade does not eliminate that concern since some potentially problematic additives, such as tin stabilizers, are approved for those uses.

 

[keithw283]

Wandering around the internet itself is not advisable. Ghosts, aliens, two headed people, You can find whatever you want. Doesn't make it true.


I do not believe this is accurate at all. There is also no such thing as natural polypropylene or PVDF. Both are wholly synthetic materials that do not exist in nature. If you mean unfilled materials (nothing buy the polymer), that is certainly fine. Better? Maybe not.


The grey brute cans are rated as food safe for human food, and I see no reason to think there is any issue.

The idea that RO/Di is corrosive to plastic is bunk.

FWIW, I am a polymer expert. My opinion is not just that of some random person on the internet.

Natural polypropylene just means no color added.

Edit: Just read the rest of your comment. I never knew that your background was polymers. I work with plastics as well.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Natural polypropylene just means no color added.

Edit: Just read the rest of your comment. I never knew that your background was polymers. I work with plastics as well.

Happy reefing. :)

 

[Potential]

OK, we can explore those hypotheses.

First, pure water (like RO/DI) is NOT "corrosive" to plastics or organics. That is a simple misuse of the term. Organic matter does not dissolve into pure water any better than it does into tap water. That is different , perhaps, than some metals. Don't let the metal terminology move into plastics.

If carcinogenic fillers, such as stabilizers or colorants, were in Brute cans (why would they be? seems crazy, there are plenty of noncarcinogenic and nontoxic materials around for this purpose)), they could not be labeled for food contact, regardless of the type of water that is contacting them.

Doe anything leach from brute cans? Sure. There are likely mold release agents on the plastic surface, and perhaps some UV stabilizers in the plastic, along with bird poop and anything else it acquired while sitting in a Home Depot.

Definitely warrants a warm water wash, preferably with some soap.

But I and many others have used many of these cans (my system used more than a dozen at leak for sumps, RO/DI, refugia, limewater, new salt water etc. for 20 years) without any evidence that the were a problem.


There are many suppliers of colored food and medical grades of polypropylene.

First because something has been done a long time doesn’t mean that it’s not wrong a ro/di container should have a gasket lid so that contaminates in the air can’t get in the water and the corrosive material used to make the brute traps bacteria

 

[rishma]

First because something has been done a long time doesn’t mean that it’s not wrong a ro/di container should have a gasket lid so that contaminates in the air can’t get in the water and the corrosive material used to make the brute traps bacteria

An RODI container should have a gasket? Like my auto top off reservoir? That wouldn’t be very practical.

The material used to make brute cans is corrosive? Maybe there is a language or translation issue?

I’m not following.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

First because something has been done a long time doesn’t mean that it’s not wrong a ro/di container should have a gasket lid so that contaminates in the air can’t get in the water and the corrosive material used to make the brute traps bacteria

Fine. Don’t do what has worked for several decades by
many reefers.

As a recognized polymer expert, I have no idea what you mean by a corrosive material used to make brute cans that traps bacteria, or even if it did happen, why one cares.

Can you enlighten us on both accounts?

And finally, what do you actually suggest?

 

[toothybugs]

I'd have to consult one of my synthesis texts for a bit further detail but is it possible @Randy Holmes-Farley that the tin is coming from a catalyst retained in the matrix? DBTDL or similar?

Very, very late to the conversation but I figured I should show off my polymer knowledge too lol (I didn't go the synthetic route; I formulate a variety of coatings)

 

[DHill6]

Blue brute cans held entire reef for months, fish, coral, inverts, rock, inhabitants were fine while awaiting new tank arrival. With that said I mix nsw in food safe 5g bucket from restaurant supply store. My wc are small.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'd have to consult one of my synthesis texts for a bit further detail but is it possible @Randy Holmes-Farley that the tin is coming from a catalyst retained in the matrix? DBTDL or similar?

Very, very late to the conversation but I figured I should show off my polymer knowledge too lol (I didn't go the synthetic route; I formulate a variety of coatings)

Tin can come from plastics, including food and medical grades, since it is approved as a stabilizer in those uses.
Most often it is used in pvc.
https://www.baerlocher.com/products/pvc-stabilizers/organotin-stabilizers/
But I have not ever heard of a tin stabilizer for use in polypropylene, and have not seen anyone track down tin to a Brute.

I use Brute cans from Home Depot for new salt water, ro/di storage, and my sumps. A recent test by Oceamo showed no elevated tin, although the cans I am using have been in service for many years and might be depleted of additives by now. But I never experienced any issue even when new.

 

[rishma]

Tin can come from plastics, including food and medical grades, since it is approved as a stabilizer in those uses.
Most often it is used in pvc.
https://www.baerlocher.com/products/pvc-stabilizers/organotin-stabilizers/
But I have not ever heard of a tin stabilizer for use in polypropylene, and have not seen anyone track down tin to a Brute.

I use Beute cans from Home Depot for new salt water, to/do storage, and my sumps. A recent test by Oceamo showed no elevated tin, although the cans I am using have been in service for many years and might be depleted of additives by now. But I never experienced any issue even when new.

Interesting. I thought my tin was coming from my RO tubing which I believe is PE. I started purging the RO tubing before using the water and my tin went down a lot. Maybe I made a spurious correlation. Is Tin used in PE?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Interesting. I thought my tin was coming from my RO tubing which I believe is PE. I started purging the RO tubing before using the water and my tin went down a lot. Maybe I made a spurious correlation. Is Tin used in PE?

I’ve it heard of tin in polyethylene. Maybe it was in the housing of the di or the ro?

 

[rishma]

I’ve it heard of tin in polyethylene. Maybe it was in the housing of the di or the ro?

Could be. My purge before use would do the same thing. I know PVC is source but I think rODI is mostly polycarbonate

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Could be. My purge before use would do the same thing. I know PVC is source but I think rODI is mostly polycarbonate

I don’t have a ready explanation for your observation. Certainly, the most common use of tin is rigid and flexible PVC:

https://blueskyauxiliaries.com/adva...g efficiency. Some key advantages include: 1.