Are Deep Sand Beds really a thing of the past?

HomebroodExotics

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after trying a deep sand bed, it sounds great in theory but in practice its just annoying. I love a sand bed so I've done 2 different ways now. I like just enough sand to cover the bottom, like 1/2'' or less. Or I have also started using a plenum in one tank and I am pretty happy with that as well. If denitrification is what you are looking for, its better to just do some carbon dosing IMO.
 

Sean Clark

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I like a DSB but contained to a sump area. I want my DT to be full of water coral and fish. As to the effectiveness, I don't know. I have not experienced any negatives from having one. I do not think that they are nessacary by any means.
 

bruno3047

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The devil is in the details.

How large of quantities are we talking about?
There are anecdotal stories of complete tank meltdowns from disturbed sandbeds. The sad part is that many of these tanks had been established for many years, that’s why the DSB became so potent.
 

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Every tank I have ever had (except my seahorse tank) had/has a deep sanded. It's true that they should not be disturbed deep down where the sand is not aerated but none of my tanks ever turned toxic. When I took down an older tank, 10 years old or so the sand smelled just like fresh salt water and the bottom strata was a slightly different color where the anaerobic bacteria resided and did their magic. I also maintained tanks for a lfs in the early 2000s. That mom and pop store closed but some of the tanks that they set up are still going in their original set up. They absolutely work reducing nitrates plus they are very low maintenance if done correctly. I dance my fingers across the surface of my sandbed when I clean the glass once a week. That's all I do.

I have a tall tank so I welcome the DSB to take up some of the height. Here is a pic and although you cannot see it well, this is my tank with a tiered sand bed, some which is 7" deep.
The sand bed I pulled last year from a 20 year old FOWLR tank smelled fresh as well, no nasty pockets. I was amazed at how clean it was. Granted the detritus buildup was great on some areas near the surface and the nitrates and phosphates were high.

If I was to do that tank all over again it would be coarse shallow sand and big skimmer/algae for filtration.
 

bruno3047

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I have a vague memory of a guy who used a 5 gallon bucket filled with sand and he put it online with his filtration system and he claimed that he had significantly lower nitrates in his FOWLR tank with it. Since saltwater fish tank started the pursuit of nitrate reduction has come in many forms. Here’s a diagram of a coil denitrator using regular quarter inch airline. See if you can figure it out.

C81EFF99-9072-41CF-8A4E-7F660FE72E96.jpeg
 

HuduVudu

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There are anecdotal stories of complete tank meltdowns from disturbed sandbeds. The sad part is that many of these tanks had been established for many years, that’s why the DSB became so potent.
I posit that the meltdown came from aerobic actions not anaerobic actions. It is a small point but an important one. I have run a full on anaerobic digestor on my tank. Fish were fine. It makes me question the orthodoxy of why these beds destroyed (or where alleged to have) tanks.

People have fears and I find that information helps people become more resilient to fear if they understand.
 

Sean Clark

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I have a vague memory of a guy who used a 5 gallon bucket filled with sand and he put it online with his filtration system and he claimed that he had significantly lower nitrates in his FOWLR tank with it. Since saltwater fish tank started the pursuit of nitrate reduction has come in many forms. Here’s a diagram of a coil denitrator using regular quarter inch airline. See if you can figure it out.

C81EFF99-9072-41CF-8A4E-7F660FE72E96.jpeg
Fluidized sand beds were a thing too. This looks similar to that concept.
 

bruno3047

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I have a vague memory of a guy who used a 5 gallon bucket filled with sand and he put it online with his filtration system and he claimed that he had significantly lower nitrates in his FOWLR tank with it. Since saltwater fish tank started the pursuit of nitrate reduction has come in many forms. Here’s a diagram of a coil denitrator using regular quarter inch airline. See if you can figure it out.

C81EFF99-9072-41CF-8A4E-7F660FE72E96.jpeg
I posit that the meltdown came from aerobic actions not anaerobic actions. It is a small point but an important one. I have run a full on anaerobic digestor on my tank. Fish were fine. It makes me question the orthodoxy of why these beds destroyed (or where alleged to have) tanks.

People have fears and I find that information helps people become more resilient to fear if they understand.
Here’s a first-hand account of a DSB tank crash

 

Sean Clark

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I personally use a Sulfur denitrator. But I think that a DSB is more natural approach.
Screenshot_20220122-141820_Gallery.jpg
 

bruno3047

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I personally use a Sulfur denitrator. But I think that a DSB is more natural approach.
Screenshot_20220122-141820_Gallery.jpg
Did it take you a long time to tune it up? I looked into this once and found out it was very “hands-on”. Required much fine-tuning to avoid buildup of nitrites. Have you experienced anything like that
 

Sean Clark

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Did it take you a long time to tune it up? I looked into this once and found out it was very “hands-on”. Required much fine-tuning to avoid buildup of nitrites. Have you experienced anything like that
Super simple once I started using a parastaltic pump to control the flow. Started with a gravity feed then I used a kamoer fx-stp, now using the versa. Fx-stp was by far the best pump but I didn't have the wifi one.

I have been using one for almost a decade. Being able to dial in your nitrate level is pretty nice.
 

HuduVudu

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Here’s a first-hand account of a DSB tank crash

The ammonia was tested the next day.

Clownfish are notorious for being able to deal with cycles better than others.

No indication of what tests were used for the ammonia and nitrate.

I have seen this scenario described countless times, and right on que the next post lays the blame on H2S ... as it always is.

Once again. I have run a full on anaerobic digester on my aquarium with no effect. The whole house smelled of H2S.
IMG_2155.JPG
 

Sean Clark

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The ammonia was tested the next day.

Clownfish are notorious for being able to deal with cycles better than others.

No indication of what tests were used for the ammonia and nitrate.

I have seen this scenario described countless times, and right on que the next post lays the blame on H2S ... as it always is.

Once again. I have run a full on anaerobic digester on my aquarium with no effect. The whole house smelled of H2S.
IMG_2155.JPG
Interesting. Have you tested for sulfates in the tank? I would attribute the H2S to low flow. My rule is if I can smell it, I need to increase the flow.
 

bruno3047

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The ammonia was tested the next day.

Clownfish are notorious for being able to deal with cycles better than others.

No indication of what tests were used for the ammonia and nitrate.

I have seen this scenario described countless times, and right on que the next post lays the blame on H2S ... as it always is.

Once again. I have run a full on anaerobic digester on my aquarium with no effect. The whole house smelled of H2S.
IMG_2155.JPG
I certainly don’t doubt you, but if it’s one thing I learned in this hobby it’s never to doubt another person’s claimed lived experience.
 
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bruno3047

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Interesting. Have you tested for sulfates in the tank? I would attribute the H2S to low flow. My rule is if I can smell it, I need to increase the flow.
That was the other side of my “hands-on“ conclusion. If the flow was too fast you got nitrites, if the flow was too slow you got hydrogen sulfide. Seemed like a lot of work at the time. Glad to hear that you straightened it all out and it’s working well for you.
 

HuduVudu

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Interesting. Have you tested for sulfates in the tank? I would attribute the H2S to low flow. My rule is if I can smell it, I need to increase the flow.
The green PVC pipe was full of aragonite gravel. The water flowed from one side to the other. I forget how much I was moving. It wasn't much. I would put chunks of beef and chicken in the front side. It was producing a lot of H2S, you couldn't miss the smell.

I wanted full anaerobic conditions and I got them. If I remember I was actually low on sulfur which makes sense because I was losing so much to the gas.

One funny thing is that I put a pump in the front side to help stir. BIG mistake ... the magnet started to get chewed up from the pre-cursor to the H2S. I ended up with some pretty high iron levels ... whooops.
 

bh750

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I'll chime in here as since I've employed a DSB for 15 years now. I don't think they're necessary but I do think they help and not sure I'm completely on board with the negatives. Esp the one about not disturbing it. I don't know if I agree. One key (that's also missing in the remote DSB approach) is the constant movement of the sand. This is caused by the presence of microfauna - worms, stars, snails ,,- that populate the sand and help the denitrification process with their movement and digestion of waste. If you have a healthy population of life they will take care of processing waste and also keep the sanded moving constantly. To me that along with the size of the grain of sand a depth are the 3 keys.

BTW not sure if he's still active but I learned much of this directly from Dr Ron Shimek. Legend. And I still follow the same ideals he shared for years.
 

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DSBs work great. Keep the sand 4-6" deep in the sump. Leave it alone and nitrates go to zero in about 6 weeks. My DSB has been working since 2011 with no issues. Just add aragonite sand to the top as it's consumed. Don't stir it up and it's great.
 

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