Are the costs of our hobby discouraging newcomers?

[MnFish1]

After window shopping for livestock a possible topic of discussion occurred to me.

Are costs of the hobby becoming a detractor for potential new reef keepers? We all know it can be done inexpensive or crazy expensive, but that’s cause we know.

My first real tank in the 80,s. was a 55 which after all items inc stand, lights and livestock was less than $800 complete.

Today if I was interested in starting out it is a different story. Walking into an LFS or looking online will quickly shock some. We Would hope research is done before buying. What happens if they see prices starting in the hundreds and don’t bother to go any further and do the research to find out?


Just for fun I pulled these prices within minutes all from 1 site. Obviously not the norm, but if I had no idea about fish I would take 1 look and I would be nice fish, their out of their minds. Let’s go to Denny’s.

Maybe seawitch can do an article on evolution of the hobby if not already done.

$1299.99 $7999.99. $699.99. $2999.99. $599.99. $5499.99

$249.99. $249.99. $229.99. $349.99. $399.99

I would say no - its not more expensive (especially when adjusted for inflation). Remember that in the '80's' much of the equipment available now was not available. And much of the equipment available now - though it makes reefing 'easier' (controllers, losers, etc) - is not 'necessary' for a successful reef tank.

Take sumps for example. You can easily make a sump from a 20$ 20 gallon aquarium - with siliconed glass baffles for under 50$ - yet some people spend $1000 on an acrylic sump that 'looks nice'. but does the same thing.

Many corals and fish are LESS expensive today than they were in the 80's. Some rare fish in the 80's are now much more common.

 

[fish farmer]

I’m so old I pushed Moses off the mountain top

My intent isn’t to start a class war. I would lose, I have no class. The thing I was going for is would that same person who started the hobby years ago find prices manageable where that same person today, all things adjusted for inflation, be interested in starting the hobby today.

I did a rough comparison of what I think I spent back in 2000 for a 38 gallon and priced out a 40 gallon with similar equipment.

I had some equipment like heaters, powerheads, dry rock, 38 gallon tank and 10 gallon sump.

Nice plywood stand = under $200?
20 lbs fiji live rock = $109
MH/PC lighting kits = $400 to 500 ( I had 6 watts per gallon)
float switch for return shutoff = $80(today's price)
CPR overflow box = $100(today's price....maybe 80 back then)
CPR skimmer =$135(probably similar as before)
rio return pump = $75?
TWP water purifier =$75?
Added two stage RO =$100?

Total around $1,374....lets round up to $1,500 for a bag of sand, fans, fuge lighting, etc.

That's the basics, test kits are around the same price. I made a gravity ATO and dripped kalk out of a wine bottle. I built the canopy as well.

If I did it all over with a 40 breeder

Say I have the tank, heater and some powerheads.
I build a stand for $200(or less)
20 lbs premium aqua cultured LR = $120
25 lbs base rock = $60
Hamilton MH pendant, variable 150 to 250 watt ballast, bulb =$380
T5 actinic supplement kit with bulbs = $168
Reef octopus skimmer = $200
Drilled overflow = $111
Return pump = $100
4 stage RO/DI = $150
Float switch for whatever = $80
Add another $100 for sump and fuge light.

Basic today are $1,569...I'll add another $150 for fans, sand, etc....$1,719.

The prices are still reasonable to get started and I would do it all over again. The equipment is much better as well, the old MH I had before was a heavy tar ballast where I had to do all the wiring myself.....The new set up is plug and play and the ballast can run bulbs up to 250 watt for say a future upgrade.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Just one of three tanks - 660g at well over $12,000 !!

snowmobiling-
2 person Sled @ $5500 Coat, bibs, gloves and boots- $ 1400 Helmets - $ 430 Trailer - $1100
Miscellaneous - $300. . . . . About $8500

 

[Stege_saurus]

I came into the hobby about 5-6 years ago and am willing to admit I didn't do the research I should have done. I had kept a 55 gal freshwater tank for a few years before that and became overly confident about keeping saltwater fish. I learned alot over the years and recently rekindled my excitement about this hobby which led me to getting an upgraded tank. I don't think its the price of the equipment, at least it wasn't for me...

Here's a breakdown of my upgrade to a 120g:

120 gal tank and stand with sump: $400 (found it used online locally, couldn't pass up looking at it)
New heater: $50
Pvc fittings: $50
New bulkhead: $8
Submersible pump for filling: $45
New hose for pump: $15
30 gal trash can for water changes: $15
Salt mix(200gal amount): $80
Chaeto algae: $20
Live bacteria: $35
Other chemicals/ meds: $100
Powerheads (2): $80
Lights: $300

I didn't buy everything at once, I started with the tank and stand and worked up from there. If there's one thing I've learned, it's you don't need to buy everything at once. Take your time and make sure you're getting the proper stuff and do your research.

What is driving me nuts is the price of livestock. Im not much of a gambler, although I will gamble once in a while. It drives me crazy when I find a specimen I like, it looks healthy and eats, I get it home to quarantine and it dies within a few days. My closest LFS is an hour away, and none of them have any sort of return policy when it comes to saltwater livestock, so I have to make sure everything is perfect before I purchase. I don't like to give $40+ for a great looking fish that I believe will be a great addition to my ecosystem, only for it to die before it gets a chance to be part of it. Im not trying to bash anyone or any businesses, but it does get kind of sad when you can purchase from a less than reputable pet store chain and have a higher success rate in keeping them alive than when you purchase from a LFS...

 

[Dgramig]

I honestly don’t feel like the cost is the big problem. I feel like the big problem is the stigma of saltwater aquariums are had to establish and maintain. When people see reef tanks or I talk about my tanks the main thing I always here is “ aren’t those hard to take care of” . Established tanks with the proper equipment are more stable than a fresh water tank to me personally. We all know education and patience is key in this hobby. Yes we all know it can get expensive! Very expensive if wanted. However we all know you don’t have to have all ecotech equipment with every option on a apex known to man. At the end of the day if we could educate more people on the hobby I feel like more people would get involved.

 

[rodney]

I think every hobby is expensive i also am a backyard beekeeper.

$250 for bees
$150 for a suit
$150 if you build the hive yourself. Up to $500 if you are not handy.
Another $100 for other odds and ends.

Annually another $200 in care and pest control.

They have hive monitoring devices that are $500 dollars per hive.

If want a cheap hobby buy some ebay binoculars and become a neighborhood birdwatcher. Want to photograph them you’ll need $2000 for the proper lens and camera though [emoji23].

That’s true then half your hives die out every year!

 

[fish farmer]

Just one of three tanks - 660g at well over $12,000 !!

snowmobiling-
2 person Sled @ $5500 Coat, bibs, gloves and boots- $ 1400 Helmets - $ 430 Trailer - $1100
Miscellaneous - $300. . . . . About $8500

The president of our local reef club/forum did the reef upgrade, downgrade, bought the house, put a 200+ gal in a wall, then he wanted out and became involved in snowmobiling and started having kids, the club disbanded. I'm FB friends with him.....I've seen a nano in a picture or two. I have no idea what became of the wall tank in his basement.

I see him complain about the lack of snow fall from time to time...sometimes it just doesn't snow in parts of Vermont.

 

[fish farmer]

Here's a thread from last year regarding price history, https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...e-and-how-does-it-compare-to-the-past.371301/

 

[Eva Rose]

My favorite vendors are the ones that offer entry level priced corals & fish as well as expensive ones. This approach encourages newcomers. It also reminds experienced hobbyists to still appreciate the beauty in the more common fish/livestock. I remember meeting a retired man @ a trade show who wanted to start adding corals to his tank. We walked around with him to show him some affordable/practical options.

As for equipment , the drawback to tech driven devices is they are really not that more failsafe than old school equipment. They can glitch, fail to update etc. I like my Apex to view my tank functions & give me instant info. But I have experienced some major tank emergencies that the Apex failed to alert me to - even though it was programmed to do so.

It is why I like being able to ask/research options for my tank on R2R. I like to read verified experiences & reviews to buy the best quality in my budget.

 

[Aardvark1134]

The strange part about the really expensive fish...is most of them I don't think are any better than the fairly cheap ones. Example tangs I think Dory, Yellow and Achilles are the best looking. 2 of those 3 are dirt cheap. With angels while I do like a nice Regal and Gold flake...you have to admit a cheapo flame angel is pretty darn nice to look at too! They don't get much cheaper than a royal gamma or a nemo or emo and those are really nice too.

 

[Coralreefer1]

The hobby has made leaps and strides in the past 20 years or so. Technology, experience and knowledge combined with the raising the standards in the hobby have raised the bar on the monetary values and price tags associated with aquarium dry goods and livestock.
The nice thing about the hobby, though it is more expensive, is the fact that you can be just as successful with a simple and economical tank as you can with an expensive tank complete with all the bells and whistles and housing extravagant and pricey livestock.
If you do your research, you can find good deals, sales and trades!
If you want to compete with the Jones’, you can spend a fortune. However, you can have a nice tank with the myriad of choices made available with online and pet shop venues not to mention the numerous events and shows.
Whatever your comfort level or financial situation is, you can have a beautiful, fascinating and entertaining marine aquarium. The choice is yours...choose wisely
It’s the same thing as making so many of life’s choices from buying a car to a house to where you shop for groceries.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Thanks to everyone’s reply’s thus far. Some great feedback both ways.

It’s sounds like it’s leaning towards no, the cost and sticker shock is no more a deterrent than it would have been 30 years ago. At least for a newcomer just “kicking the tires” if they would have done it 30 years ago they would do it today.

To shift up a bit,

I do think the hobby has actually become more attainable than ever before. I am jealous,, and happy for them, every time I see the post where they got a full 125 set up for $300. For someone that wants in and does the research they can start for very little out of pocket. I believe the internet has really helped in a lot of ways

Thanks again all, now do we think younger people are joining. And go...

 

[fish farmer]

I do believe younger people are joining, based on HS and college students I see here. I even helped a young fish geek jump into college for aquaculture( and reefing...started him with some softies, he's into SPS now). He currently works at an Reverse Osmosis water plant in California, before he worked with Abalone in Santa Cruz.

 

[AquariumCal]

After window shopping for livestock a possible topic of discussion occurred to me.

Are costs of the hobby becoming a detractor for potential new reef keepers? We all know it can be done inexpensive or crazy expensive, but that’s cause we know.

My first real tank in the 80,s. was a 55 which after all items inc stand, lights and livestock was less than $800 complete.

Today if I was interested in starting out it is a different story. Walking into an LFS or looking online will quickly shock some. We Would hope research is done before buying. What happens if they see prices starting in the hundreds and don’t bother to go any further and do the research to find out?


Just for fun I pulled these prices within minutes all from 1 site. Obviously not the norm, but if I had no idea about fish I would take 1 look and I would be nice fish, their out of their minds. Let’s go to Denny’s.

Maybe seawitch can do an article on evolution of the hobby if not already done.

$1299.99 $7999.99. $699.99. $2999.99. $599.99. $5499.99

$249.99. $249.99. $229.99. $349.99. $399.99

I bought my fist salt water tank in 1976 and I have seen a lot of water flow under the bridge since then. I bought my first 55gal tank for $150.00 and could get a nice anomonie for $8.00. a nice peace of coral (not frags) could set you back $15.00. All you had to do was keep them alive, When a blue light was introduced it was a big step forward as was removing the undergravel filter.

 

[rynosreef]

I think ultimately it's a wash, and to some degree the expense with the hobby correlates with experience of the hobbyist. So in that way, I feel that the expense doesn't keep interested persons from trying out a saltwater tank. When I first started about 10 years ago, Craigslist and second hand everything were my friend. It was still expensive in my view but doable. These days, I'd never do some of the things I did back then. Now it's worth the extra cost to get a decent heater, test kits, and rock for example. When I first started it may have been even more expensive, because before I realized I truly needed the nicer more expensive things I had bought the cheaper ones!

 

[Mark]

It was never a cheap hobby. But I do think there has a been a shift away from DIY and a push for more automation and gadgetry. I think that makes the hobby seem more expensive to some. The rate of innovation has pushed spending up as well. There wasn't a lot of innovation around metal halides and flourescents, except the change to electronic ballasts and better spectrum bulbs. Now we have reef LED lighting companies releasing new version of their lighting at a more frequent rate.... Which is great, but the consumer starts to feel their previous version lights are inferior. It's similar to the smart phone industry, where we upgrade perfectly fine iPhones because we desire new features and functionality. That can also make the hobby feel expensive if taken with the wrong perspective. The smarter folks pick up the older generation used lights for less and save a few bucks of course.

I think the thing that slightly bothers me is the LE coral craze. It's always been there, but I feel it is more rampant. I can't keep up with the names anymore. How many different brands of Rose BTA's are there now? After 25 years of reef keeping, the tulip craze mentality around the latest hot mushroom doesn't appeal to my senses much anymore.

 

[Dragon52]

I have my 185gl pic on my Debit card & when I went to the bank today to check on something I had to let the rep see my card & she asked me about it. After I told her its my tank at home she asked if it was hard to do a saltwater tank ? My response to her wass it all starts with how you start it up. This isn't the first time I've been asked that question so I think that's part of the issue, people think it's alot harder & more work.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

I have my 185gl pic on my Debit card & when I went to the bank today to check on something I had to let the rep see my card & she asked me about it. After I told her its my tank at home she asked if it was hard to do a saltwater tank ? My response to her wass it all starts with how you start it up. This isn't the first time I've been asked that question so I think that's part of the issue, people think it's alot harder & more work.

That’s is awesome. I have a picture of my mastiff I lost a while back and get asked about her a lot also.

If there was more opportunities like that to get people interested in the hobby it would make the entire question I posed a non issue. Getting a person interested and educated on the hobby up front will prepare them for some of the prices they will run into. But it will also allow them to get the tools to do the hobby on a budget, as we know can be done.

Of course you told her she has to go and buy a tank that day and join R2R.

 

[Katrina71]

oh dang it it didn't pop up one sec

That's beautiful!

 

[Dragon52]

That’s is awesome. I have a picture of my mastiff I lost a while back and get asked about her a lot also.

If there was more opportunities like that to get people interested in the hobby it would make the entire question I posed a non issue. Getting a person interested and educated on the hobby up front will prepare them for some of the prices they will run into. But it will also allow them to get the tools to do the hobby on a budget, as we know can be done.

Of course you told her she has to go and buy a tank that day and join R2R.

Absolutly. LOL