Are water changes over rated?

Troylee

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What would I not be testing that wouldn't be seen by ICP or typical manual tests we perform? Last I'm doing is chasing a wild goose because I think something might exist and likely don't.
Sounds like you got a lot of faith in icp lol… from what I’ve seen, You send the same sample to multiple labs and everyone varies.. Dan and taricha have shown home test are more accurate for what it’s worth…
 

topjimmy

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What would I not be testing that wouldn't be seen by ICP or typical manual tests we perform? Last I'm doing is chasing a wild goose because I think something might exist and likely don't.
Could be anything, copper,tin, atmospheric pollution. Unless you send in an ICP every month, and even that might not be in time or even catch the issue. I see it as an easy preventative measure. I don't care whether someone else does them or not. I would recommend that newer people to the hobby do them though. They won't be as in tune with the tank or even know what to look for.
 

GARRIGA

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Sounds like you got a lot of faith in icp lol… from what I’ve seen, You send the same sample to multiple labs and everyone varies.. Dan and taricha have shown home test are more accurate for what it’s worth…
ICP-MS appears to be better at detection based on a different method as well as able to measure below the methods you are referring to.

Fact. Water changes only replace that removed and one is hoping dilution faster than that toxin produced yet without an ICP test one has no clue what exists. What I believe. Whole heatedly.
 

GARRIGA

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Could be anything, copper,tin, atmospheric pollution. Unless you send in an ICP every month, and even that might not be in time or even catch the issue. I see it as an easy preventative measure. I don't care whether someone else does them or not. I would recommend that newer people to the hobby do them though. They won't be as in tune with the tank or even know what to look for.
If you believe that partial water changes will save you in the event something such as tin being leached before an ICP results are known then go with that. I don't and I don't think newbies should subscribe to an antiquated concept just because most do it and being newbies might benefit the most from ICP in that they are likely clueless to identify what's happening based on purely observation or hobby level test kits. My beliefs. You don't have to subscribe to them. I'm not forcing myself on others. Just sharing thoughts. Each grown up enough to decide for themselves and if they aren't best not get in this hobby.
 

Miami Reef

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I think for replenishing trace elements, alk, ca, or removing nutrients, water changes are a bit overrated.

I change water occasionally for ionic balance that 2 parts can skew and organic removal since skimming, carbon, and ozone can’t remove them all. It’s just a peace of mind that organics aren’t building up.
 

JNalley

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I think for replenishing trace elements, alk, ca, or removing nutrients, water changes are a bit overrated.

I change water occasionally for ionic balance that 2 parts can skew and organic removal since skimming, carbon, and ozone can’t remove them all.
Umm, "removing nutrients" which you state as overrated, and "organic removal" are the same thing... So is "ionic balance" to some degree...
 

topjimmy

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If you believe that partial water changes will save you in the event something such as tin being leached before an ICP results are known then go with that. I don't and I don't think newbies should subscribe to an antiquated concept just because most do it and being newbies might benefit the most from ICP in that they are likely clueless to identify what's happening based on purely observation or hobby level test kits. My beliefs. You don't have to subscribe to them. I'm not forcing myself on others. Just sharing thoughts. Each grown up enough to decide for themselves and if they aren't best not get in this hobby.
Just because it's been done for as long as aquariums have existed doesn't make it antiquated. It's a tool to use, or not. You can be successful in the hobby with lots of different methods.
 

GARRIGA

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Just because it's been done for as long as aquariums have existed doesn't make it antiquated. It's a tool to use, or not. You can be successful in the hobby with lots of different methods.
Then why argue with me. Just accept I have a different view then self. I choose not to use this tool which used to be used to solve ammonia and nitrites. Hence the antiquated notion. :)
 

k2-

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This is completely observational - Not atall scientific - With 3 different tanks with different length of life (anywhere from 10 years to 8 months old) - You dont need as much water change and relatively good growth and stability in an older tank. However for new ones - Yes. That makes me think - I guess question we should be asking is how useful is water change once biome is fully stable and not many changes happening to the reef except coral growth.
 

GARRIGA

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Something I hadn't thought of that was brought to my attention at RAP by the owner of ICP-Testing in that our tap might contain toxins below what can be read by a TDS meter and in the process of making those miracle saving water changes might just be adding more toxins than one thought was being removed if their DI not able to remove it. Shown that they use DI made for clean rooms and unfortunately not color changing which requires testing as the only means to know when it stopped working. I'm still learning about this but is food for thought.

Made sense to me and why I'll be sending out samples of both my top off and display. Seems logical this should be an option for those with bad tap regardless if water changes or not. We all need to top off evaporation.
 

topjimmy

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Then why argue with me. Just accept I have a different view then self. I choose not to use this tool which used to be used to solve ammonia and nitrites. Hence the antiquated notion. :)
I'm not arguing with you.
 

Miami Reef

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Umm, "removing nutrients" which you state as overrated, and "organic removal" are the same thing... So is "ionic balance" to some degree...
In my opinion water changes are a bit overrated for nitrate and phosphate reduction is because there are easier and cheaper ways to lower them.

For the sole sake of reducing nitrates and phosphates, I believe water changes are a little overrated.

However, if you are doing water changes for other purposes (like organic dilution or salinity ionic balance which isn’t always accomplished by other means) then having nutrient reduction as a side benefit is not overrated.
 

Troylee

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It’s been a while, Sunrise was the name of mountain and I thought the blvd… maybe 10 min from Nellie’s AFB
…pardon the deviation
Correct sunrise mountain the mountain runs parallel to Hollywood Blvd at the base of it. nellis also runs parallel to that about 2 miles west. Plenty of streets off nellis such as bonanza, Washington, lake mead etc but no street called sunrise.. and the only fish store I can think of around back then was trop aquarium which is still around amazingly it’s gotta be going on 40 years lol.. they set me up with my first salt water tank with a under ground filter and some aqua clears to drive it! :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:
 

JNalley

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Nutrients (nitrate and phosphate) is not the same as organic removal.
When people say "Nutrient Export" or "Nutrient Removal" they're often referring to Nitrates and Phosphates, as well as organics that have not decomposed which will ultimately create more nitrates and Phosphates.... So in a sense, "Organic Removal" falls under the umbrella term Nutrient Export/Removal... This is why people vacuum sand beds during water changes... To remove organic waste that will eventually break down into nitrates and Phosphates...
 

Paul B

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Are you mocking me? I’m not really sure what you are trying to say to me.
Of course not. Why would you even think that? I have been on these forums long before there were forums and I never mocked anyone. I was just stating a fact. I am not even sure what "Great Success" in this hobby means.

Does that mean 6 months, 6 years or 60 years? No one knows. But, No, I was not mocking you as I don't do that and never did. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:
 

topjimmy

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Correct sunrise mountain the mountain runs parallel to Hollywood Blvd at the base of it. nellis also runs parallel to that about 2 miles west. Plenty of streets off nellis such as bonanza, Washington, lake mead etc but no street called sunrise.. and the only fish store I can think of around back then was trop aquarium which is still around amazingly it’s gotta be going on 40 years lol.. they set me up with my first salt water tank with a under ground filter and some aqua clears to drive it! :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:
I remember when the Jaubert Plenum was in style. I ran it on my first tank.
 

soreefed

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Of course not. Why would you even think that? I have been on these forums long before there were forums and I never mocked anyone. I was just stating a fact. I am not even sure what "Great Success" in this hobby means.

Does that mean 6 months, 6 years or 60 years? No one knows. But, No, I was not mocking you as I don't do that and never did. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:
My assumption is fair. You quote great success as if you question its usage, and in a rather condescending way you choose to highlight your experience, and at the same time fail to acknowledge any of the other statements in my post.
 

Paul B

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You are totally incorrect in that. But what can I say?
 

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