Are we killing our corals with elevated nutrients in our tanks?

[bruno3047]

I thought about this a lot. When we increase our nitrate and phosphate levels and our SPS/LPS respond with enhanced coloration, how do we know that that’s a good thing other than that it’s pleasing to the eye? How do we know that the coral isn’t being stressed, and that’s why it has such intense coloration? And then one day, the coral starts declining and we have no idea why? The water that these corals come from, tropical reef water has near zero nitrates and near zero phosphates. The appearance of nitrates and phosphates in these waters is considered pollution, and is usually followed by a massive coral die-off. So I did a little research on this and I came across this article from Time magazine, I think circa 2016. I think it confirms what I suspected.

Explore This Coral Reef Before it Disappears

An underwater investigation of coral bleaching in the South Pacific

time.com

 

[laezur]

I was watching a documentary that came out on Netflix I think last year in which they were investigating the disappearance of coral reefs. They noted that instead of bleaching, coral began to exhibit neon colours before a mass die out. How that relates to the corals we keep and whether or not it has any impact, I don’t know. I just thought it was worth mentioning

 

[bruno3047]

I was watching a documentary that came out on Netflix I think last year in which they were investigating the disappearance of coral reefs. They noted that instead of bleaching, coral began to exhibit neon colours before a mass die out. How that relates to the corals we keep and whether or not it has any impact, I don’t know. I just thought it was worth mentioning

You’re right over the target buddy.

 

[JCM]

I dont agree.

More problems arise from bottoming out nutrients rather than keeping them around 10/.05. Yes natural reefs have near undetectable nutrient levels but those corals have multiple other food sources we can't replicate in our tanks.

Now if you're talking about high nutrients as in 100/.5, I agree that's not ideal and can lead to issues.

 

[Miami Reef]

Lower nutrients give corals brighter colors.

You cannot replicate the sea by have no nutrients. The zooxanthellae in coral need a source of nitrogen and phosphorus, but corals in the wild can catch this by actively feeding.

A tank with skimmers, heavy filtration and low fish load with no detectable N & P is very bad.

 

[bruno3047]

I dont agree.

More problems arise from bottoming out nutrients rather than keeping them around 10/.05. Yes natural reefs have near undetectable nutrient levels but those corals have multiple other food sources we can't replicate in our tanks.

Now if you're talking about high nutrients as in 100/.5, I agree that's not ideal and can lead to issues.

I run undetectable nitrates and phosphates. Always have. In 40+ years of salt water fish tanks, I still wouldn’t know a dino if it bit me on the nose.

 

[dvgyfresh]

I dump all my skimmate back into the tank I’m team high nutrients lol , the ocean is way different compared to tanks, I think having high nutrients ensures everything is able to feed when it wants to , obviously every tank is probly a little different just do what works for you. If you start a new tank with dry rock and run low nutrient you will not enjoy it

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Hi all,

I think there is so much more in the equation You need to look at. When you talk nutrients it is not just No3 and Po4. There are lots of examples of low and high nutrient tanks running successfully.

It is also lights, nutrition, and even husbandry that factor in. It is all in finding that balance and letting it work. Then not letting it swing fast.

My tank has run undetectable No3 for years and Po4 from .03 to .15 for years. I have found if I keep focusing on stability and making adjustments it works. It helps I don’t care about color as much as growth and health.

 

[bruno3047]

I dump all my skimmate back into the tank I’m team high nutrients lol , the ocean is way different compared to tanks, I think having high nutrients ensures everything is able to feed when it wants to , obviously every tank is probly a little different just do what works for you. If you start a new tank with dry rock and run low nutrient you will not enjoy

 

[bruno3047]

I dump all my skimmate back into the tank I’m team high nutrients lol , the ocean is way different compared to tanks, I think having high nutrients ensures everything is able to feed when it wants to , obviously every tank is probly a little different just do what works for you. If you start a new tank with dry rock and run low nutrient you will not enjoy it

That’s exactly what my tank is. All dry rock and undetectable nitrates and phosphates. You can see it in my avatar. I feed my corals newly hatched brine shrimp, Hikari Mysis, reef roids and Goniopower. They’re all very happy, as am I. Just saying that we can’t duplicate reef eating conditions in our aquariums is a little simplistic, especially in light of all the specialized foods available to us these days.

 

[dvgyfresh]

That’s exactly what my tank is. All dry rock and undetectable nitrates and phosphates. You can see it in my avatar. I feed my corals newly hatched brine shrimp, Hikari Mysis, reef roids and Goniopower. They’re all very happy, as am I. Just saying that we can’t duplicate reef eating conditions in our aquariums is a little simplistic, especially in light of all the specialized foods available to us these days.

That’s good! I think a lot of issues early on in new tanks is too low of nutrient allowing Dino’s to take over, or bad bacteria, sometimes the good stuff wins out, I went through the Dino phase with low nutrients and luckily was able to beat it I think 20ppm nitrate and .1-.3ppm phosphate is my target, sps focused tanks should aim for lower when did you start your tank?

 

[MaxTremors]

I dont agree.

More problems arise from bottoming out nutrients rather than keeping them around 10/.05. Yes natural reefs have near undetectable nutrient levels but those corals have multiple other food sources we can't replicate in our tanks.

Now if you're talking about high nutrients as in 100/.5, I agree that's not ideal and can lead to issues.

Well that’s the thing, the concentration of NO3 and PO4 in the ocean is low compared to most of our tanks, but the amount of nutrients is essentially limitless, in a closed system running your nutrients that low would lead to corals consistently running out of nutrients. It’s essentially impossible to run our tanks at NSW levels and have corals grow (some may even die).

 

[bruno3047]

That’s good! I think a lot of issues early on in new tanks is too low of nutrient allowing Dino’s to take over, or bad bacteria, sometimes the good stuff wins out, I went through the Dino phase with low nutrients and luckily was able to beat it I think 20ppm nitrate and .1-.3ppm phosphate is my target, sps focused tanks should aim for lower when did you start your tank?

This particular tank has been up since May 2017.

 

[bruno3047]

Well that’s the thing, the concentration of NO3 and PO4 in the ocean is low compared to most of our tanks, but the amount of nutrients is essentially limitless, in a closed system running your nutrients that low would lead to corals consistently running out of nutrients. It’s essentially impossible to run our tanks at NSW levels and have corals grow (some may even die).

I think a lot of people run their tanks at undetectable nitrate and phosphate levels, me being one of them. And I think many people enjoy enviable success with that method.

 

[bruno3047]

I think if you’re not feeding your corals and relying on tank lighting only to promote photosynthesis in the zooxanthellae, then you may need to have elevated nutrients in the water. But if you feed your corals like I do, I don’t see any reason not to have undetectable nitrates and phosphates.

 

[dvgyfresh]

This particular tank has been up since May 2017.

Oh quite a while any recent fts? I would start a build thread and you can help others on how to start , it’s always good to see different approach

 

[MaxTremors]

I think if you’re not feeding your corals and relying on tank lighting only to promote photosynthesis in the zooxanthellae, then you may need to have elevated nutrients in the water. But if you feed your corals like I do, I don’t see any reason not to have undetectable nitrates and phosphates.

Photosynthesis cannot occur without nitrogen and phosphates, so that alone is a reason not to run undetectable nutrients. I’m somewhat conflicted on whether or not it’s a cause or a symptom, but the risk of dinoflagellates is another reason. One other reason is that there are many corals that cannot be fed, some corals (Xenia for example) only have vestigial digestive tracts that are non-functional and depend exclusively on photosynthesis. I mean, run your tank in whatever way works for you, but there are plenty of reasons why running a tank with undetectable nutrients isn’t ideal.

 

[JCM]

I run undetectable nitrates and phosphates. Always have. In 40+ years of salt water fish tanks, I still wouldn’t know a dino if it bit me on the nose.

That's great but others clearly have issues attempting that approach.

Well that’s the thing, the concentration of NO3 and PO4 in the ocean is low compared to most of our tanks, but the amount of nutrients is essentially limitless, in a closed system running your nutrients that low would lead to corals consistently running out of nutrients. It’s essentially impossible to run our tanks at NSW levels and have corals grow (some may even die).

That's essentially what I was saying. Natural reefs have low nutrients but huge throughput. Replicating that would be great but out of reach for most.

 

[bruno3047]

Oh quite a while any recent fts? I would start a build thread and you can help others on how to start , it’s always good to see different approach

The photo in my avatar is about a month or so old. Tank started out as a FOWLR with angels and butterflies. I just converted it to mixed reef about two years ago. The oldest corals are the green fade torch and gold torch front and center. Both about two years old.

 

[bruno3047]

Photosynthesis cannot occur without nitrogen and phosphates, so that alone is a reason not to run undetectable nutrients. I’m someone conflicted on whether or not it’s a cause or a symptom, but the risk of dinoflagellates is another reason. One other reason is that there are many corals that cannot be fed, some corals (Xenia for example) only have vestigial digestive tracts and depend exclusively on photosynthesis. I mean, run your tank in whatever way works for you, but there are plenty of reasons why running a tank with undetectable nutrients isn’t ideal.

You can have photosynthesis taking place and still have undetectable nitrates and phosphates. Think for a minute and you’ll see why.