Assistance with Fluke diagnosis and process

[towels]

Currently stressed about some fish that are displaying fluke-like systems

I noticed my blue leopard wrasse flash today and my copperband seems to be a bit more fidgety that normal. I noticed the fish go into the corner today and display flash like movements. I’m definitely paranoid now and am questioning what to do with all of my fish.

They are eating like crazy except my marine beta who’s being picky and only eating live ghost shrimp. I have seen him flash once while I was doing a spot feed. I don’t see any physical signs of heavy breathing, rubbing on rock, or gill inflation

Should I do a FW dip for all fish? I’ve read that there are display tank safe treatments but I don’t want to risk anything. what’s currently the most effective way of treating?

75G main tank and I have a 10G Qt that was dosed with copper and nitrof

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[MnFish1]

Unfortunately I can't see the videos - so I'll take your word for it - did you recently add more fish - did you quarantine these fish? A freshwater dip may provide a diagnosis - and if you can see the flukes at the bottom of the container after a freshwater dip - it can help with diagnosis - but will not cure the fish - the treatment is prazipro - 2 treatments (sometimes 3) are required. The symptoms you're describing are fluke-like - however, unless you recently added new fish - or didn't quarantine these fish - it makes that diagnosis less likely. Was there any recent stress event in the tank?

Since the symptoms you're describing are 'minimal' (not trying to minimize them - but per your description they seem minimal - I would not do a FW dip on all the fish - since that may be more stressful than treating them (which if the FW dip is positive, you will have to treat anyway) - If you took the most affected yet vigorous fish (i.e. not the batfish) and did a test FW dip that may help make up your mind. Do you have corals etc in your tank? If not you could consider hypo salinity as a treatment - or prazipro can be used in the tank. Usually 85% of the recommended dose/gallon is used - since there are rocks, etc taking up some of the water volume

 

[towels]

Unfortunately I can't see the videos - so I'll take your word for it - did you recently add more fish - did you quarantine these fish? A freshwater dip may provide a diagnosis - and if you can see the flukes at the bottom of the container after a freshwater dip - it can help with diagnosis - but will not cure the fish - the treatment is prazipro - 2 treatments (sometimes 3) are required. The symptoms you're describing are fluke-like - however, unless you recently added new fish - or didn't quarantine these fish - it makes that diagnosis less likely. Was there any recent stress event in the tank?

Since the symptoms you're describing are 'minimal' (not trying to minimize them - but per your description they seem minimal - I would not do a FW dip on all the fish - since that may be more stressful than treating them (which if the FW dip is positive, you will have to treat anyway) - If you took the most affected yet vigorous fish (i.e. not the batfish) and did a test FW dip that may help make up your mind. Do you have corals etc in your tank? If not you could consider hypo salinity as a treatment - or prazipro can be used in the tank. Usually 85% of the recommended dose/gallon is used - since there are rocks, etc taking up some of the water volume

Thank you for the quick reply. I’l see if I can get the videos fixed.

Yes, I recently added a wrasse and betta who were in a qt with a shop. I am regretting not having an observation tank as my qt tank is dosed with copper and I’ve read mixed info on dosing copper with wrasse. I should have put the marine betta in regardless.

Lights are off now so I will do a freshwater dip in the morning on the wrasse.. I have coral in the tank.

If flukes are seen, all fish need to be removed from the tank, correct? Of course I will look into it more prior to the FW dip. I’ve read that my display would need to sit sterile for 76osh days.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Currently stressed about some fish that are displaying fluke-like systems

I noticed my blue leopard wrasse flash today and my copperband seems to be a bit more fidgety that normal. I noticed the fish go into the corner today and display flash like movements. I’m definitely paranoid now and am questioning what to do with all of my fish.

They are eating like crazy except my marine beta who’s being picky and only eating live ghost shrimp. I have seen him flash once while I was doing a spot feed. I don’t see any physical signs of heavy breathing, rubbing on rock, or gill inflation

Should I do a FW dip for all fish? I’ve read that there are display tank safe treatments but I don’t want to risk anything. what’s currently the most effective way of treating?

75G main tank and I have a 10G Qt that was dosed with copper and nitrof

Any help would be greatly appreciated

i see high turbulence to the point the sand is being blown to the corner. The copperband looks thin and dont see fluke symptoms which would be gills will be red or swollen with rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects. They may also exhibit what looks like yawning from gill irritation develop, cloudy eyes and loss of color.
Dont mix copper and furosome but do the copper for 30 days at 2.25 and then PraziPro which addresses flukes

 

[towels]

i see high turbulence to the point the sand is being blown to the corner. The copperband looks thin and dont see fluke symptoms which would be gills will be red or swollen with rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects. They may also exhibit what looks like yawning from gill irritation develop, cloudy eyes and loss of color.
Dont mix copper and furosome but do the copper for 30 days at 2.25 and then PraziPro which addresses flukes

Thanks for the reply. I’ve noticed the Copper is actually a bit thicker than when I first got him.

Are you recommending copper with no nitrofurosome and then after 30 days doing only Prazi (for all fish in display)

Thank you

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you for the quick reply. I’l see if I can get the videos fixed.

Yes, I recently added a wrasse and betta who were in a qt with a shop. I am regretting not having an observation tank as my qt tank is dosed with copper and I’ve read mixed info on dosing copper with wrasse. I should have put the marine betta in regardless.

Lights are off now so I will do a freshwater dip in the morning on the wrasse.. I have coral in the tank.

If flukes are seen, all fish need to be removed from the tank, correct? Of course I will look into it more prior to the FW dip. I’ve read that my display would need to sit sterile for 76osh days.

I would skip doing any FW dips. Too many people tear their fish up trying to catch them for a dip, and then, we you put the fish back, it just gets reinfected again. Only one species of fluke is large enough to see in the dip water without a microscope (Neobenedenia).

The fish are showing typical fluke symptoms, so treating in place with praziquantel is your easiest choice. The best choice would be to move all of the fish to a treatment tank and treat them with hyposalinity, but that's a lot more work.

It looks like you tank is pretty young. Be sure the water quality is good. When you dose prazi, be sure to use an air stone.

 

[towels]

I would skip doing any FW dips. Too many people tear their fish up trying to catch them for a dip, and then, we you put the fish back, it just gets reinfected again. Only one species of fluke is large enough to see in the dip water without a microscope (Neobenedenia).

The fish are showing typical fluke symptoms, so treating in place with praziquantel is your easiest choice. The best choice would be to move all of the fish to a treatment tank and treat them with hyposalinity, but that's a lot more work.

It looks like you tank is pretty young. Be sure the water quality is good. When you dose prazi, be sure to use an air stone.

Thank you for the reply. Will look into prazi to start asap. Skimmer on or off during this? Quick read people say to remove top and let it flow? I’ve been breaking in my skimmer the last day and a half but I doubt that has any contribution to any of this.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you for the reply. Will look into prazi to start asap. Skimmer on or off during this? Quick read people say to remove top and let it flow? I’ve been breaking in my skimmer the last day and a half but I doubt that has any contribution to any of this.

Run the skimmer, just don't collect the skimmate. Add an extra air stone to the tank if you can. Turn off any UV or carbon filters. Then, dose the prazi to the actual (net) volume of your tank. If you don't know the net volume, you can use the rated volume of the tank and subtract 10 to 15% from that to balance out displacement of water by rocks and substrate. Then, after the first dose, wait 8 days, do a 25% water change and dose it a second time. In some cases, a 3rd dose is needed 8 days after the 2nd one.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks for the reply. I’ve noticed the Copper is actually a bit thicker than when I first got him.

Are you recommending copper with no nitrofurosome and then after 30 days doing only Prazi (for all fish in display)

Thank you

No nitro and Prazi as Jay also indicated. Dose it at 85% of recommended and after dose applied, let it run in tank for 8 days and then do a water change and apply one more dose lasting 8 days and add air stone with use of prazi as it reduces oxygen slightly

 

[towels]

Run the skimmer, just don't collect the skimmate. Add an extra air stone to the tank if you can. Turn off any UV or carbon filters. Then, dose the prazi to the actual (net) volume of your tank. If you don't know the net volume, you can use the rated volume of the tank and subtract 10 to 15% from that to balance out displacement of water by rocks and substrate. Then, after the first dose, wait 8 days, do a 25% water change and dose it a second time. In some cases, a 3rd dose is needed 8 days after the 2nd one.

Thank you. I’ll remove the top off the protein skimmer and open up the line to empty out any build up and empty into the sump. Will also toss an air stone or 2 in the display and sump. Will dose 85% of tank/sump volume. Is the tank able to function normally other than UV skimmer and reactor?

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you for the quick reply. I’l see if I can get the videos fixed.

Yes, I recently added a wrasse and betta who were in a qt with a shop. I am regretting not having an observation tank as my qt tank is dosed with copper and I’ve read mixed info on dosing copper with wrasse. I should have put the marine betta in regardless.

Lights are off now so I will do a freshwater dip in the morning on the wrasse.. I have coral in the tank.

If flukes are seen, all fish need to be removed from the tank, correct? Of course I will look into it more prior to the FW dip. I’ve read that my display would need to sit sterile for 76osh days.

The safest way to treat with Prazipro would be in another tank - however - you can increase aeration, and use it in your display - taking into account your dose should be based on actual water volume (including sump) - usually its estimated that an 85% dose of Prazipro is proper but your tank may be different.

I think most wrasses tolerate chelated copper - I'm curious what was your lFS protocol for QT?

 

[towels]

The safest way to treat with Prazipro would be in another tank - however - you can increase aeration, and use it in your display - taking into account your dose should be based on actual water volume (including sump) - usually its estimated that an 85% dose of Prazipro is proper but your tank may be different.

I think most wrasses tolerate chelated copper - I'm curious what was your lFS protocol for QT?

I would love to do it in another tank but I don’t have one big enough for everyone and I would basically need to get a whole new setup besides my qt (copper) and main. At my budget currently but I definitely should have invested in one sooner. Will be doing so in the near future. Im going to put two air stones in the sump and 2 in the display.

On the IM 75g ext and 39g sump that’s about 70% full, I’m estimating to do .71ml for 85-90ishgallons. This maybe a slight underdose. I don’t have an insane amount of rock but I do have a 2.5-3 inch sand bed and some additional rubble in the sump approx 6lb

I clarified with the LFS and they told me cupertine on the wrasse

 

[towels]

Today I noticed small dots on the CBB. Based off the photos I believe this is ich. Fish is still eating a ton but I guess it’s time to treat all fish for ich and sterilize the tank for 3 months. Just bought a 20 gallon so I’ll split up the fish between the 10 and 20 with HOB filters on. Can I dose prazi and copper power / nitrofurazone together? I have Cupramine as well but have never used it.

Advise for steril sit? 3 months is my intent. Remove socks and skimmer? Turn off return flow, correct ?
@Jay Hemdal

 

[towels]

#fishmedic

 

[MnFish1]

I would love to do it in another tank but I don’t have one big enough for everyone and I would basically need to get a whole new setup besides my qt (copper) and main. At my budget currently but I definitely should have invested in one sooner. Will be doing so in the near future. Im going to put two air stones in the sump and 2 in the display.

On the IM 75g ext and 39g sump that’s about 70% full, I’m estimating to do .71ml for 85-90ishgallons. This maybe a slight underdose. I don’t have an insane amount of rock but I do have a 2.5-3 inch sand bed and some additional rubble in the sump approx 6lb

I clarified with the LFS and they told me cupertine on the wrasse

I don't exactly understand what you mean - about Cupertine on the wrasse. You can not use copper in your display - and I'm not sure it's a huge help to do it to one fish unless you see a disease consistent with ich or velvet? Agree with using the Prazipro in the tank - with the aeration.

 

[towels]

I don't exactly understand what you mean - about Cupertine on the wrasse. You can not use copper in your display - and I'm not sure it's a huge help to do it to one fish unless you see a disease consistent with ich or velvet? Agree with using the Prazipro in the tank - with the aeration.

That’s what the LFS procedure was

I believe I have ich now based on my previous comment and will be doing qt for the fish. Not sure what else to do as I’m not sure if it’s manageable. id like to take the best routes from now onwards n and I know catching the fish might be another ordeal.

 

[MnFish1]

That’s what the LFS procedure was

I believe I have ich now based on my previous comment and will be doing qt for the fish. Not sure what else to do as I’m not sure if it’s manageable. id like to take the best routes from now onwards n and I know catching the fish might be another ordeal.

Oh - thanks - do you know how long they treated the fish? You can use a fish trap for those you cant easily net.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

That’s what the LFS procedure was

I believe I have ich now based on my previous comment and will be doing qt for the fish. Not sure what else to do as I’m not sure if it’s manageable. id like to take the best routes from now onwards n and I know catching the fish might be another ordeal.

I do see ich on that fish. You're right in needing to remove all fish and treat (unless this is a fish-only tank, or could be easily made that way by pulling the invertebrates). Hyposalinity or coppersafe works best for me.

I your other post, you mentioned changing the tank's operation during a fallow period? Don't do that - just run the tank as normal.

 

[towels]

I do see ich on that fish. You're right in needing to remove all fish and treat (unless this is a fish-only tank, or could be easily made that way by pulling the invertebrates). Hyposalinity or coppersafe works best for me.

I your other post, you mentioned changing the tank's operation during a fallow period? Don't do that - just run the tank as normal.

I have about 10 corals. Swapping fish into separate QTs today with copper power 2.25-2.5 and nitrofurazone. Will run 76 minimum fallow in the display/sump running the tank as I have been - swapping socks and routine maintenance. Going to load up on corals on Monday and start the fallow period there.

Doing 2 weeks of copper treatment and will restart as signs show And then doing a prezi process in my same qt tanks after sterilizing. Follow up with observation until fallow period over.

- my leopard wrasse sleeps in the sand every night. Will a large bowl of sand in qt suffice?

- keeping 5 snails in the tank but I also have a cleaner- can he stay?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I have about 10 corals. Swapping fish into separate QTs today with copper power 2.25-2.5 and nitrofurazone. Will run 76 minimum fallow in the display/sump running the tank as I have been - swapping socks and routine maintenance. Going to load up on corals on Monday and start the fallow period there.

Doing 2 weeks of copper treatment and will restart as signs show And then doing a prezi process in my same qt tanks after sterilizing. Follow up with observation until fallow period over.

- my leopard wrasse sleeps in the sand every night. Will a large bowl of sand in qt suffice?

- keeping 5 snails in the tank but I also have a cleaner- can he stay?

A couple of things - copper power is mild, but because of that, you need to run it longer, 30 days is what I suggest. Also, that 76 day fallow period is based on an error, but it’s so firmly imbedded in the internet, it won’t go away. 76 days works, but so does 60.

I’m not sure I understand - you can’t expose snails to copper. What is a “cleaner” - a cleaner wrasse? If so, it needs to be treated with copper also.