Ati icp test results in. IMO don’t look so bad so why are most my corals deflated not happy starting to show skeleton.
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stephj03
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Is your PO4 still bouncing around a bit like you mentioned in one of your other threads?
What's your fish load?
I think you were on to something with the nutrient imbalance but unfortunately I have not experienced that kind of thing being fixed and then corals bouncing back quick.
It was like 6-9mo total for me last yr after I started getting it fixed, specifically with PO4.
I'd say you had a die off that boosted your PO4 when the tank mishap occured. And the rocked bound a bunch if it up. Or the rock reached a long term saturation point.
I'd guess PO4 began leaching back out into the water which caused that param to bounce around like you saw/see.
Nitrate dosing helped but until the leaching is over it's likely to see saw back and forth and your corals will hate the variability.
It looks like you were getting really good production out if your scrubber so you have nutrients and the corals aren't starving.
If you're worried about trace and warfare get a $40 box of IO, do several large water changes (30% or greater, 100% total within a WK) and move on from that concern IMO.
That will also help to some degree with PO4
What's your fish load?
I think you were on to something with the nutrient imbalance but unfortunately I have not experienced that kind of thing being fixed and then corals bouncing back quick.
It was like 6-9mo total for me last yr after I started getting it fixed, specifically with PO4.
I'd say you had a die off that boosted your PO4 when the tank mishap occured. And the rocked bound a bunch if it up. Or the rock reached a long term saturation point.
I'd guess PO4 began leaching back out into the water which caused that param to bounce around like you saw/see.
Nitrate dosing helped but until the leaching is over it's likely to see saw back and forth and your corals will hate the variability.
It looks like you were getting really good production out if your scrubber so you have nutrients and the corals aren't starving.
If you're worried about trace and warfare get a $40 box of IO, do several large water changes (30% or greater, 100% total within a WK) and move on from that concern IMO.
That will also help to some degree with PO4
OP
OP
So I did look into chloramines couple months ago. I went on to my local fourm I’m from Chicago. And was given a link to Chicago city water analysis website and my area and all around it does not use chloramines at all.
stephj03
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If your PO4 is stably low now without removal mechanisms (GFO/scrubber/wc), I would take them all offline to confirm your reading isn't floating up over time.
If it is, you're still leaching. If not your system is good but it could still be months before your corals get happy again.
If it is, you're still leaching. If not your system is good but it could still be months before your corals get happy again.
OP
OP
Seems my mushrooms and toadstools and leatherS do fine. But these are the corals I’m least interested in so I need to figure something out
OP
OP
Ok for the tin I’m not super worried about it will send another icp out in few weeks to re-evaluate.
Yes 40 par on sand. I have a friend who owns fish store sells awesome chalice and I went to his grow out room with my par meter and that is what he was running so in an attempt to figure out my issue tried to copy a known good value for the corals that I got from him. I’m not sure if the symptoms I have would be caused from low light. I would love to turn my light up in just really scared because I’ve never had coral brown out like you read about corals with lack of light my issue is more of a turn white lose flesh show skeleton kinda issue sounds like to much light. I wish I had a chart or something to look at to compare my symptoms to if it was a ford I’m sure there would be
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OP
OP
Yes both no3 and po4 both keep dropping so I’ve been feeding More and dosing Nitrates to keep them up. I also took my skimmer cup off and lowered time on algae scrubber and refuegium lights to help to removing them to keep them up.
As far as fish load now it’s light just recently about month ago removed 3 tang from system that where grazing on my corals and 2 pair of clowns went with them into a newly set up 300 gallon. So now only have 1 Pair of clowns and small ruby red goby with bunch of snails and small crabs.
Now what do you mean by fixed nutrient levels because no matter how much I read I can’t seem to find a correct answer on the best nutrient levels for chalice corals. I understand then needing to be stable part but so many different opinions has my head turning always second guessing if I choose the right numbers.
I kind of do feel like my corals are starving I think Ive read something to do with low nutrients and high alk levels Could cause this but what is low nutrients and high alk. I think My parameters are close to most everyones suggestions.
I have noticed in the past week my Cheto exploded in growth doubled in size In my algae scrubber always produces a lot of algae fast which is where I think my nutrients are going starving my corals possibly.
Im not really convinced it’s a warfare thing either way most time I feel doing all those water changes would not hurt anyways but in this for instance I’ve been having issues with no3 and po4 almost bottoming out and I know for a fact if I did a water change regimine like that there will be 0 no3 and po4 left in water. Do I still consider the water changes and then dose like crazy to keep up with it?again I’m not sure.
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OP
OP
So today I noticed some tentacles on my space invader not sure if that’s representation of a good thing or a bad thing because everything else still declining
OP
OP
Tested Parameters again last night as follows
No3 12
Po4 .06
Alk 8.4
Cal 446
Mag 1360
Ph 8.3
Temp 78
Orp 280
Salinity 1.026
Using 2 g5 x30 pro set to brs modified ab+ at 12% is about 40 par at sand
Recently removed skimmer cup and turned down light time on algae scrubber and refugium to help keep no3 po4 from hitting 0
Recently stopped using carbon. Been using it for years did not notice a Difference
No3 12
Po4 .06
Alk 8.4
Cal 446
Mag 1360
Ph 8.3
Temp 78
Orp 280
Salinity 1.026
Using 2 g5 x30 pro set to brs modified ab+ at 12% is about 40 par at sand
Recently removed skimmer cup and turned down light time on algae scrubber and refugium to help keep no3 po4 from hitting 0
Recently stopped using carbon. Been using it for years did not notice a Difference
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OP
OP
What do you think about the aluminum in my tank. That’s in the Pollutant category yet nobody mentioned it.
High levels of TIN in my tank
Some of the SPS losses could just be because it's a brand new tank. The lack of stability of a new system can have a negative effect on SPS. I have high tin on my last Triton (I got results yesterday). My SPS, are fine. Great polyp extension, good color, growing. My tin is 7.341 µg/l, I...www.reef2reef.com
def look into it, but also may prove to be a combination of factors
Lightspeed
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12.87 ugl Aluminium converts to 0.01287mg/l or 0.01287ppm, 12.87 ug/l is actually a ppb reading, looking at the attached chart we can see that the normal analysis for Aluminium content in seawater is 1.9 ppm, in which case your reading as per your ICP analysis is well under the normal range.
to convert ug/L to ppm simply divide by 1000.
Using this same chart for trace element analysis we can also see that your Tin level is double the normal seawater trace element parameter.
While i am not saying Tin is THE problem, it is consistent throughout your attached systems using the same water, for this reason i would consider it to be a factor owing to the water storage facility you have, but i also feel it may not be a single thing like Tin, delineating the problem is the most difficult and requires careful and deliberate control measures, changing one thing at a time and watching for the environmental impact in your system to reveal itself.
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OP
OP
I have a bunch of marinepure cubes from algae barn and I thought I read something about them leaching aluminum or some type of metals. Just wondering thanksSUE - Contents
web.stanford.edu
12.87 ugl Aluminium converts to 0.01287mg/l or 0.01287ppm, 12.87 ug/l is actually a ppb reading, looking at the attached chart we can see that the normal analysis for Aluminium content in seawater is 1.9 ppm, in which case your reading as per your ICP analysis is well under the normal range.
to convert ug/L to ppm simply divide by 1000.
F4TALREEFER
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Honestly, I personally think these parameters are 100% okay for anything. Plenty of people keep higher Po4 and No3, but nothing wrong with were are you at with them. I'd try to keep them rock solid at this spot, slowly increase your lighting, and add a small amount of carbon 1/4 recommend maybe 1/8 and just change it weekly to hopefully just help pull any toxins/prevent build up.
Keep the skimmer up, and just aim for rock solid and don't chase numbers. It will fluctuate a here and there, but should not be drastic swings.
I can't comment on the dissolved minerals in the icp. I'm not quite that knowledgeable in that area.
Randy Holmes-Farley
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What do you think about the aluminum in my tank. That’s in the Pollutant category yet nobody mentioned it.
It is not high enough to be a problem, based on my testing and experiences of lots of folks seeing those levels.
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1. Part of the problem might be you're overdoing it (i.e. chasing your numbers and not allowing them to be 'stable'
2. Your phosphate seems 'low' to me. (at least on the ICP)
3. I had a similar problem where I could grow 'some' corals - but others would just 'die off' after 2 weeks. Once I stopped 'fiddling' - My tank is doing much better. I know many will disagree - but when I stopped using 'algae reactor' - things much improved, for example.
4. Sometimes when one coral dies - it releases toxins that harm its neighbors - and this can lead to a bit of a cascade. Curious - have you ever checked ammonia? One thing I do - is - when (especially a large piece) - starts to die - I remove it - I don't just wait until its 'completely gone' - I'd rather lose 1 piece than 5. An example - a piece of coral of mine (if you look at the build thread - the piece of Setosa on the far right side - all the sudden over the course of a couple weeks started to whiten on one edge this spread until about 3/4 of the coral was affected (started where another coral was touching it). - I fragged off the living part and glued it back on top of where the white part was - its now growing fine. So - it couldnt be light, flow, nutrients etc.
5. Do you dip your corals? Could you have a parasite or disease?
Sorry this was long - sorry if I repeated someone else's suggestion
PS - looking at your pictures - do you think you might be 'overdoing' the numbers of corals you have - and how close they are - or was that picture from a Frag tank (when I have seen frag tanks - at large stores for example - they 'tend' to have coral of one type in one area - with a lot of flow.
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Another question - what is the TDS of your RODI - does your community use chloramine (here they might use it once in a month if there is a problem - but not 'usually') - have they done anything different with regards to chlorine or chloramine lately? Neither will be 'seen' on an ICP test mainly because the 'chloride. very high in seawater' and 'chlorine much lower' will both be measured as 'chlorine'
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Im not sure you can actually say this for sure. Nor can you say carbon will remove it (or harm things). It all depends on concentration of the chemicals involved - where they are released, the flow in the tank, etc. If corals are crowded together - and releasing chemicals (or sweepers) - if there is not enough flow - there could be problems - even with a skimmer IME. If the skimmer is not working 'well' or is too small for the tank - it may not be enough. Did the OP say anywhere the size of the tank, what he uses for flow, etc?
IslandLifeReef
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@((FORDTECH)) Looking at all of the posts and your posts and ICP test results, I agree with @MnFish1 that you may be overdoing it a bit with chasing issues. Based on the number of corals in the pictures, it could be an issue with coral warfare. It could also be an issue with lighting. The first thing I would do is reduce the density of the corals and arrange them by type to see if that helps. The next thing I would do is try increasing the lighting intensity. Do this slowly via the acclimation mode.
If you change a lot of things at once, you may fix the issue, but won’t know what the problem really was. More likely though, you will end up causing a new problem and chasing issues, never really dialing in your tank. I like trying to keep it simple. I run a little carbon, a skimmer, and an ATO. That‘s it. I follow tank trends, not numbers. The more I mess with things, the more things tend to get out of control.
If you change a lot of things at once, you may fix the issue, but won’t know what the problem really was. More likely though, you will end up causing a new problem and chasing issues, never really dialing in your tank. I like trying to keep it simple. I run a little carbon, a skimmer, and an ATO. That‘s it. I follow tank trends, not numbers. The more I mess with things, the more things tend to get out of control.
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