AWC (Hydros + Versa) - reality check

[JHSteepat]

Please let me know if there is anything missing or troublesome about this plan. Let me know if you have a better idea.

I am setting up an Auto Water Change system for my aquarium (150 gallons, ~1.5 gallons per day @ 50 ml/min for ~ 2 hrs), running two Ecotech Versa pumps via 1/4" RO tubing from my basement to/from my sump. I have a Hydros controller.

I plan to run the Mobius AWC program and link to Hydros high/low level sensors on the sump, set to turn off the pumps in both instances so I can troubleshoot - along with keeping an eye on salinity once I am sure the Versas are calibrated and the system is operating correctly (not that I don't already)?

I expect to put the Versas in the aquarium cabinet above the sump level and run them off the main Hydros collective (wired from the XP8).

The drain pump tube will be placed at a level in the sump so that it cannot draw more than a couple of gallons of water if it happens to siphon despite the in-line Versa. The fill pump tube and the ATO water tube, will be placed above water level in the sump to prevent back-siphon.

 

[n2585722]

Please let me know if there is anything missing or troublesome about this plan. Let me know if you have a better idea.

I am setting up an Auto Water Change system for my aquarium (150 gallons, ~1.5 gallons per day @ 50 ml/min for ~ 2 hrs), running two Ecotech Versa pumps via 1/4" RO tubing from my basement to/from my sump. I have a Hydros controller.

I plan to run the Mobius AWC program and link to Hydros high/low level sensors on the sump, set to turn off the pumps in both instances so I can troubleshoot - along with keeping an eye on salinity once I am sure the Versas are calibrated and the system is operating correctly (not that I don't already)?

I expect to put the Versas in the aquarium cabinet above the sump level and run them off the main Hydros collective (wired from the XP8).

The drain pump tube will be placed at a level in the sump so that it cannot draw more than a couple of gallons of water if it happens to siphon despite the in-line Versa. The fill pump tube and the ATO water tube, will be placed above water level in the sump to prevent back-siphon.

The Hydros does not link to mobius at all. So not sure what good the Hydros sensors would do for the Versa's.

 

[Pistondog]

I have the versas doing 1 gallon awcs. One in the basement pumping up 8 feet and 1 tankside removing water. Been doing this for 3 years.
The versa tubing needs to be changed every 4 to 6 months. Easy to diy vs $20 per.
I have the pumps set at 17ml/min and power up every 2 hours via apex for 20 minutes.
the tube failure mode for me is on the used tank water pump. It will eventually not seal properly and drip when off, easily visible.

 

[JHSteepat]

The Hydros does not link to mobius at all. So not sure what good the Hydros sensors would do for the Versa's.

Thanks, I an aware of this. I only planned to use it to shut off if there was a failure, similar to my use with a Versa running kaly via mobius but plugged into the Hydros and shuts off if pH > something like 8.6.

 

[n2585722]

Thanks, I an aware of this. I only planned to use it to shut off if there was a failure, similar to my use with a Versa running kaly via mobius but plugged into the Hydros and shuts off if pH > something like 8.6.

Ok, just making sure you were aware. I use dosing pumps for my AWC and ATO but they are directly controller by my Hydros collective.

 

[JHSteepat]

I have the versas doing 1 gallon awcs. One in the basement pumping up 8 feet and 1 tankside removing water. Been doing this for 3 years.
The versa tubing needs to be changed every 4 to 6 months. Easy to diy vs $20 per.
I have the pumps set at 17ml/min and power up every 2 hours via apex for 20 minutes.
the tube failure mode for me is on the used tank water pump. It will eventually not seal properly and drip when off, easily visible.

This is encouraging. Do you see an issue with both pumps being tankside, with one pulling up 10 feet or so instead of being in the basement? I prefer to hardwire and not run a power cable or controller cable the 25 feet or so.

on a related point, what tubing do you use to replace the versa’s? I saw Tygon in another thread (“3/16" ID x 5/16" OD x 1/16" Wall Tygon® E-1000 Tubing. You will need to cut it into 149mm lengths”). Do you just slide the fastener off then on or do you use a new fastener each time, and if so what product do you use.

 

[Pistondog]

This is encouraging. Do you see an issue with both pumps being tankside, with one pulling up 10 feet or so instead of being in the basement? I prefer to hardwire and not run a power cable or controller cable the 25 feet or so.

on a related point, what tubing do you use to replace the versa’s? I saw Tygon in another thread (“3/16" ID x 5/16" OD x 1/16" Wall Tygon® E-1000 Tubing. You will need to cut it into 149mm lengths”). Do you just slide the fastener off then on or do you use a new fastener each time, and if so what product do you use.

Ime its easier to push up than pull,youll have to try it.
That looks like the tubing. I use zip ties rather than clamps.

 

[JHSteepat]

additional help requested.

So I have the system set up for ~1.5g per day AWC. It has been running a few weeks. Both fill and drain pumps are calibrated in the basement on a hydros wifi strip, as backup to the Mobius programming. Everything is running fine, but I have a failsafe question.

I have high and low sensors for the sump, but if the drain pump (versa) starts leaking and siphoning, the ATO will keep filling the tank until I notice the problem (I’ve been monitoring salinity every few days by refractometer). I am wondering if there is a failsafe I haven’t considered. I initially though I could just keep the drain line an inch or so below the water level of the sump, but the ATO would maintain the water level….D’oh.

Would moving the drain pump above the sump level and adding a siphon break after the pump help? Do I just split the drain line above the sump level and add a one way air valve to prevent siphoning?

 

[Pistondog]

When the pump tubing needs replacement, the siphon will be a drip, every 30 seconds or so. My tank water versa emptys into a 5g bucket, so i notice the bucket filling more than usual. I also elevate the drain line so i can see the drips when they start

 

[n2585722]

additional help requested.

So I have the system set up for ~1.5g per day AWC. It has been running a few weeks. Both fill and drain pumps are calibrated in the basement on a hydros wifi strip, as backup to the Mobius programming. Everything is running fine, but I have a failsafe question.

I have high and low sensors for the sump, but if the drain pump (versa) starts leaking and siphoning, the ATO will keep filling the tank until I notice the problem (I’ve been monitoring salinity every few days by refractometer). I am wondering if there is a failsafe I haven’t considered. I initially though I could just keep the drain line an inch or so below the water level of the sump, but the ATO would maintain the water level….D’oh.

Would moving the drain pump above the sump level and adding a siphon break after the pump help? Do I just split the drain line above the sump level and add a one way air valve to prevent siphoning?

Is the ATO controlled by the Hydros? If so check the logs for the ATO to find out the maximum time it is staying on at any one time. Then set the maximum on time in the advanced settings for a little longer than what you found on the logs. The set run past max on time to off. You will also need to set a minimum off time. This will limit the ATO amount to a certain amount during a fixed time period. If you have a leak it will eventually exceed the maximum on time and the ATO will stop and send an alert if you set that up in the output settings. This is alert you if there is a slow leak. There is also a maximum off time you can set in those settings. This will not turn the output on but will alert you if it goes the length of time set without running a top off so this will alert you if the AWC is filling more than it removes. The same with maximum on time except that would be it is removing more than is added which my not necessarily be a leak. Once the maximum on time is exceeded and the output turns off either the ATO sensor has to go to wet state or you will have to override the output to get it to turn back on.

 

[n2585722]

Ime its easier to push up than pull,youll have to try it.
That looks like the tubing. I use zip ties rather than clamps.

My drain pump for my AWC is in my garage 35ft from the tank. So it has to remove water from the sump through tubing that goes up into the attic then down to the pump in the garage. It then goes back up through the attic and down to the kitchen sink drain. I also have a check valve in the tubing near where it enters the kitchen sink drain. So I also put a check valve in the fill pump tubing. That pump is in the garage also where my fresh saltwater reservoir is located.

 

[JHSteepat]

Is the ATO controlled by the Hydros?

No, I have an osmolator that is plugged into hydros wifi strip Not sure the osmolator was the right call, but I had it before Hydros. I currently only have it shut off if the water level in the sump is too high.

Maybe I should sell the osmolator, and get the Hydros triple optical sensor to control the ATO pump (I use the turbelle high jump, which I can power with a simple wall wart in the xp8).

Controlling via the ATO timing seems a little indirect, but as my concern is not necessarily the leak, but masking the leak with top-off and being alerted when there’s an issue, I think your plan will work just fine.

Thank you!

 

[JHSteepat]

My drain pump for my AWC is in my garage 35ft from the tank. So it has to remove water from the sump through tubing that goes up into the attic then down to the pump in the garage. It then goes back up through the attic and down to the kitchen sink drain. I also have a check valve in the tubing near where it enters the kitchen sink drain. So I also put a check valve in the fill pump tubing. That pump is in the garage also where my fresh saltwater reservoir is located.

I like the check valve idea but my drain setup is such that water will siphon in the same direction as the intended flow. Water cannot siphon or be pumped in the direction uphill to the tank.

 

[n2585722]

I like the check valve idea but my drain setup is such that water will siphon in the same direction as the intended flow. Water cannot siphon or be pumped in the direction uphill to the tank.

The Main reason for the check valve was since I was going directly to the drain I want to make sure it did go from the drain back to the pump. I know that is not likely to happen but it does not hurt to have the insurance. i added it to the fill side since it was a dual head dosing pump and I wanted the load to match as much as possible.

 

[n2585722]

No, I have an osmolator that is plugged into hydros wifi strip Not sure the osmolator was the right call, but I had it before Hydros. I currently only have it shut off if the water level in the sump is too high.

Maybe I should sell the osmolator, and get the Hydros triple optical sensor to control the ATO pump (I use the turbelle high jump, which I can power with a simple wall wart in the xp8).

Controlling via the ATO timing seems a little indirect, but as my concern is not necessarily the leak, but masking the leak with top-off and being alerted when there’s an issue, I think your plan will work just fine.

Thank you!

Since you have a overfull sensor already I would use the normal water level sensor instead. Depending on the placement and the wave action in the sump you might get false alarms on the high level sensor. There is not a lot of level difference between the sensor levels on it and they are not adjustable separately. At lest with them separate you can adjust each one without affecting the other. I use a dosing pump as my ATO also. It is also in the garage 35ft from the tank. Below is three screenshots of my ATO output settings. I have a 42 gallon tank with a sump about the size of a 10 gallon tank. The depends on output ATO OK is just to disable the ATO while the water change is is happening since I now use separate dosing pumps for drain and fill and they run in sequence now instead of at the same time. Depends on also keeps the minimum off time from counting down only the depends on is no longer enforced. The will delay the ATO for the minimum off time and keeps it from turning on between the two pumps running. The last screenshot is the settings for that output.

 

[n2585722]

No, I have an osmolator that is plugged into hydros wifi strip Not sure the osmolator was the right call, but I had it before Hydros. I currently only have it shut off if the water level in the sump is too high.

Maybe I should sell the osmolator, and get the Hydros triple optical sensor to control the ATO pump (I use the turbelle high jump, which I can power with a simple wall wart in the xp8).

Controlling via the ATO timing seems a little indirect, but as my concern is not necessarily the leak, but masking the leak with top-off and being alerted when there’s an issue, I think your plan will work just fine.

Thank you!

I forgot to add that I would not use a wifi output for ATO or AWC, but you are just using it as a backup so that is probably ok. On the wifi strips if they loose communications with the controller they will stay in whatever state they are in until communication is restored no matter how long it takes. That could be disastrous if a ATO output was on and stayed on because of that. I would use a direct power method like a Drive port or a XP8 outlet for ATO. If the wifi strip is just as a backup the odds of having a wifi issue at the same time that the other device malfunctions is probably very unlikely.

 

[JHSteepat]

I forgot to add that I would not use a wifi output for ATO or AWC, but you are just using it as a backup so that is probably ok. On the wifi strips if they loose communications with the controller they will stay in whatever state they are in until communication is restored no matter how long it takes. That could be disastrous if a ATO output was on and stayed on because of that. I would use a direct power method like a Drive port or a XP8 outlet for ATO. If the wifi strip is just as a backup the odds of having a wifi issue at the same time that the other device malfunctions is probably very unlikely.

Yeah, the AWC is mobius-controlled, so the wifi strip is backup. It typically drops signal once every 2-3 days for a couple of minutes. I am not too concerned, and the alarm sensors are local to the wired collective, of course. I’m rewiring soon (rats nest in sump), and plan to move the osmolator to the xp8, and would run any ato pump directly from the same if I ditch the osmolator.

I run the fill and drain at the same time, so shouldn’t need to turn off the ATO during exchange. Calibration seems good as salinity seems stable. While not out of the question, simultaneous failure of the pumps and powerstrip is unlikely.

 

[Magic031707]

Be careful with them versa. This is just one thread on here but have starting to see more complaints about them getting stuck, especially with awc.

Anyone else experiencing constant Versa failures?

To start off and be as transparent as possible about this, EcoTech has replaced each pump I mention below through their program and only costing me $1 each time. But here is what I am wondering, is anyone else experiencing their pumps failing regularly? I have two Versa pumps performing my AWC...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[JHSteepat]

Great. So far so good, but I hate having to second-guess $200 pumps. I eyeball them every couple of days to make sure they are moving appropriately and monitor salinity.

Any way to remotely monitor that they are working?

 

[JHSteepat]

I suppose a salinity monitor would work, but I just spent $500 on a power backup system. Any cost-effective salinity solutions (not the $1100 x10, salinity probe, iV).