Back to the drawing board...ALK and Cal

revhtree · May 19, 2017

My tank room is located on and outside wall and I could super easily run anything I wanted to do right into the room. I need to get something going by next week.

Terence · May 19, 2017

GoVols said:
@Terence
Are you still liking the CoralCare's?

Thanks, Freddie

Yes. Whole tank now. LOVE THEM.

But I am not going to hijack Revs thread.

James Kanouff · May 19, 2017

GoVols said:
Same here.

... And I just sat back down after opening my widows.

Yeah -no windows open options for me-... its 88 out side.... any time the temp is under 80 i would set my " future" ERV to run 100%, Once i install it.
and my indoor tanks would greatly benefit I'm sure. To do list.. to do list... Clean Kalk bin, do water changes, install ERV, Frag my Raja rampage chalice on n on.

GoVols · May 19, 2017

Terence said:
But I am not going to hijack Revs thread

+1

GoVols · May 19, 2017

James Kanouff said:
Yeah -no windows open options for me-... its 88 out side....

I Just keep the thermostat to my wife's liking and switch the fan from auto to on with all the ceiling fans on too.
I get what I want and she's happy too. ;Woot

revhtree · May 19, 2017

Hey hijack away! I like to read and learn!

revhtree · May 19, 2017

James Kanouff said:
Yeah -no windows open options for me-... its 88 out side.... any time the temp is under 80 i would set my " future" ERV to run 100%, Once i install it.
and my indoor tanks would greatly benefit I'm sure. To do list.. to do list... Clean Kalk bin, do water changes, install ERV, Frag my Raja rampage chalice on n on.

What ERV unit do you have? Maybe you answered that before....

Terence · May 19, 2017

revhtree said:
Hey hijack away! I like to read and learn!

That's what my thread's for - hahaha!

Www.tinyurl.com/fugazzi425

Running all four Philips CoralCare over the 8' tank now.

James Kanouff · May 20, 2017

Its a carrier model = ervcclhu1150 is what i have. It was installed on a job with out its main board and wall controller and then left that way for 7 years. when i discovered it the owner said if its never worked then i don't need it don't buy the 500$ worth of missing parts. just disconnect it. now its in my garage till i hot wire it or something.

They use a core like a radiator of a car and cross air thru it but don't mix the air to mediate the temperature from in n out source. saves some money. and they also close off a fixed door when not in use to prevent drafting. I bit more advanced than a pair of blower wheel fans. one blowing in thru a filter and one to out side at same time as mixing it with the ac system type concept.

Ty Hamatake · May 20, 2017

revhtree said:
I can't get my PH above 7.65 and yes it's been calibrated! My tank is located in a super air tight basement! I plan to get some fresh air into there just haven't yet.

Rev, get yourself a CO2 scrubber! It worked wonders on my tank.

Lol if you find yourself with 10 minutes and nothing else to do... https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/co2-scrubbing-an-unexpected-journey-chasing-numbers.305924/

James Kanouff · May 20, 2017

Ty Hamatake said:
Rev, get yourself a CO2 scrubber! It worked wonders on my tank.

Lol if you find yourself with 10 minutes and nothing else to do... https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/co2-scrubbing-an-unexpected-journey-chasing-numbers.305924/

The only reason I'm not gonna recommend C02 scrubber methods " which i have lots of, as i am a certified rebreather scuba diver and we use the sofnalime c02 absorbent for every dive " is that if you forget to change or miss the expiration of the media you get a ALK n Ph crash which has been for me worse than the supressed ph was to begin with when i tried it for a few months. Thus I quit messing with it. Too risky. I do my best with KALK and fresh air when ever i can to keep it as high as i can and i don't dose the tank i just do my water changes and except the slower growth in exchange for stability on the tank over all. all be it on a lower ph.

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 20, 2017

James Kanouff said:
The only reason I'm not gonna recommend C02 scrubber methods " which i have lots of, as i am a certified rebreather scuba diver and we use the sofnalime c02 absorbent for every dive " is that if you forget to change or miss the expiration of the media you get a ALK n Ph crash which has been for me worse than the supressed ph was to begin with when i tried it for a few months. T

Why would alkalinity change? If anything, I'd expect a slight rise if the lowered pH reduces calcification ad/or abiotic precipitation.

James Kanouff · May 20, 2017

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Why would alkalinity change? If anything, I'd expect a slight rise if the lowered pH reduces calcification ad/or abiotic precipitation.

I always noticed a precipitation event and a loss of alk based on the more i added it never seems to increase ALk levels. it must go somewhere other than measurable soluable ALK. i even tried testing with sea chems test kit for magnesium carbonate and borate to see if they were out of balance and decided they were not. And i'd suppose into harmless calcium carbonate. which below 7.40 would dissolve like a ca reactor i guess to the demise of the coral structures as well. I hope you can explain it better than i can to be honest. I'm a big fan and are far less knowledgeable on reef chemistry than you and many folks here. Credit to you for sure for any inaccuracy i post. please do correct it. I was plagued by the c02 issue.

the boosted ph from the reduced c02 expires when the media does, and causes a huge spike in c02 then a drop in ph and then a drop in soluble ALK n CA in the solution maybe is a way to put it??

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 20, 2017

That sentence of mine was in response to a scrubber media running out. That would lower pH and hence decrease abiotic precipitation.

I don't see any mechanism for the alk to drop.

James Kanouff · May 21, 2017

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
That sentence of mine was in response to a scrubber media running out. That would lower pH and hence decrease abiotic precipitation.

I don't see any mechanism for the alk to drop.

I understand it as follows, The loss of the scrubber media effectiveness allows the PH to rapidly drop. Which then allows lets suppose possible balanced 11.2 dkh /440 CA level formerly stabilized due to the consistent removal of C02 from the Water column and PH of over 8.3 to suddenly destabilize from a rapid influx of c02, which leads to ALK instability because the low ph will begin to effect that level of ALK and CA in the water column and precipitation happens. That is what I think I experienced when my media expired and I didn't catch it nearly immediately/ with in 6 hours. And why I could pour in hundreds of ml's of 2 part and not see higher DKH and higher CA levels. It was all going somewhere. which was precipitation into surfaces. It was possible the culprit was the constant over shooting of a possible level of ALK n CA and the result was just some random ALk n CA level. and the resulting Ph was not the cause but another effect of the destabilized c02. And the Test kits and probes just couldnt even register the rapid changes in the localized areas of the addition of the ALK n CA and higher ph from removed c02 from KALK pouring in and ALK pouring in to that specific area of the water column till it was well mixed in to surrounding water column.
I was always facing crashing Levels at night followed by recovery the next day from the constant dosing in of 2 part and KALK, all revolving around the c02 battle I waged with scrubber media and the addition of KALK in the ato , and ALK supplement which it self tried to drive out c02 from the water column.
The unstable and unpredictable nature of the battle with c02 lead to unstable levels.

Please help me understand it more Randy.
What are you thoughts on this. What likely was I seeing happen?

Ty Hamatake · May 21, 2017

James Kanouff said:
I understand it as follows, The loss of the scrubber media effectiveness allows the PH to rapidly drop. Which then allows lets suppose possible balanced 11.2 dkh /440 CA level formerly stabilized due to the consistent removal of C02 from the Water column and PH of over 8.3 to suddenly destabilize from a rapid influx of c02, which leads to ALK instability because the low ph will begin to effect that level of ALK and CA in the water column and precipitation happens. That is what I think I experienced when my media expired and I didn't catch it nearly immediately/ with in 6 hours. And why I could pour in hundreds of ml's of 2 part and not see higher DKH and higher CA levels. It was all going somewhere. which was precipitation into surfaces. It was possible the culprit was the constant over shooting of a possible level of ALK n CA and the result was just some random ALk n CA level. and the resulting Ph was not the cause but another effect of the destabilized c02. And the Test kits and probes just couldnt even register the rapid changes in the localized areas of the addition of the ALK n CA and higher ph from removed c02 from KALK pouring in and ALK pouring in to that specific area of the water column till it was well mixed in to surrounding water column.
I was always facing crashing Levels at night followed by recovery the next day from the constant dosing in of 2 part and KALK, all revolving around the c02 battle I waged with scrubber media and the addition of KALK in the ato , and ALK supplement which it self tried to drive out c02 from the water column.
The unstable and unpredictable nature of the battle with c02 lead to unstable levels.

Please help me understand it more Randy.
What are you thoughts on this. What likely was I seeing happen?

Lol, I'm understanding less and less of this conversation... still trying to follow along!

GoVols · May 24, 2017

revhtree said:
I cut my dosing in half and started back again. Over the last two days my Calcium and ALK has stayed consistent so I think I might have found the sweet spot at 200ml.

revhtree,
Is your reef still balanced out at 200ml?

Thanks, GoVols