Bacteria Confusion

[john.m.cole3]

I always thought the aerobic bacteria lived on hard surfaces and anaerobic bacteria lived deep inside pore networks of rocks....

why are some people giving advice like, "don't do too many water changes or else you will remove too much bacteria"?

 

[Elegance Coral]

Because they just don't quite understand how all this works. No need to be afraid of water changes.
Or, they are salesman that would rather you not do water changes so they can sell you magic potions in a bottle to solve all the problems that come from not doing water changes.

 

[Anirban]

My guess is they think it lives as a suspension in the water column..

 

[john.m.cole3]

when carbon dosing, how does the skimmer pull out nitrates from the water column once the anaerobic bacteria are fed?

 

[Anirban]

I dont think skimmer pulls out nitrate. It pulls out dissolved organics from water column so before they break down into nitrate or phosphate.

 

[Elegance Coral]

when carbon dosing, how does the skimmer pull out nitrates from the water column once the anaerobic bacteria are fed?

The skimmer isn't really pulling out nitrate due to feeding anaerobic bacteria carbon. Anaerobic bacteria simply produce N2 / nitrogen gas from nitrate, through respiration, when they have a carbon sours for energy.

 

[john.m.cole3]

I dont think skimmer pulls out nitrate. It pulls out dissolved organics from water column so before they break down into nitrate or phosphate.

Right, that's how a skimmer performs normally. I see it advised all the time to make sure you have a good skimmer when carbon dosing.

 

[john.m.cole3]

Why do people recommend having a good skimmer when carbon dosing? Shouldn't you just have a good skimmer all the time?

 

[Elegance Coral]

Right, that's how a skimmer performs normally. I see it advised all the time to make sure you have a good skimmer when carbon dosing.

That is to remove aerobic bacteria that reproduce much faster when we carbon dose.

 

[Elegance Coral]

If you carbon dose without a good skimmer you can end up with unwanted bacterial blooms.

 

[john.m.cole3]

That is to remove aerobic bacteria that reproduce much faster when we carbon dose.

so aerobic bacteria lives in the water column

 

[Elegance Coral]

The whole idea behind carbon dosing is to increase the rate of microbial reproduction, then remove those microbes with a good skimmer. By removing the bacteria, we remove the nitrogen and phosphorous they used as building blocks for their own tissues.

When carbon dosing, we are drastically increasing microbial growth and reproduction. This will, or can, lead to many more bacteria in the open water than would otherwise be there. However, the idea is to remove these bacteria, so it doesn't really matter if they are removed by a skimmer or by a water change. It only matters that they are removed.

 

[john.m.cole3]

The whole idea behind carbon dosing is to increase the rate of microbial reproduction, then remove those microbes with a good skimmer. By removing the bacteria, we remove the nitrogen and phosphorous they used as building blocks for their own tissues.

When carbon dosing, we are drastically increasing microbial growth and reproduction. This will, or can, lead to many more bacteria in the open water than would otherwise be there. However, the idea is to remove these bacteria, so it doesn't really matter if they are removed by a skimmer or by a water change. It only matters that they are removed.

thanks for clearing it up for me :)

 

[Elegance Coral]

so aerobic bacteria lives in the water column

Under normal circumstances there are not enough aerobic nitrifying bacteria living in the open water to be concerned about. When carbon dosing, that number may grow substantially. However, the goal is to remove this over population of bacteria.

 

[brandon429]

post 12 is really good, accurate. agreed

as a confound to things written online, there are millions of nitrifiers in the water column of any given reef tank, more in numbers on the substrate and + surface area we run exceedingly (much more surface area than the water column).

our water is contaminated x100, floc is substrate and suspended floc is hallmark feed in a reef tank.... nitrifiers colonize all substrate in the aquarium.

groups of completely non filtration-type bacteria will aggregate, and stuck to them are nitrifiers and they all share communal benefits. when we mass export, the new water is already contaminated with nitrifiers even still (they come out of chlorinated tap water per CFU counts on water reports for each city/ro systems are contaminated in short order with nitrifiers and associates to varying degrees, anywhere there's pipe or tube scum for example..the CFU's are from the plant output measure, they get worse out your pipes) and any other water not autoclaved. the rascals are everywhere and some are being fought off by t cells in our eyeball fluid because we rubbed eyes recently and contaminated lol. they're that pervasive...

so doing water changes absolutely for sure removes nitrifiers, but they were incidental. they're back immediately and never left the critical surface area


removing whole proteins via fractionation is nitrate and phosphate removal because the envelope is removed instead of breakdown of proteins in tank-->amino acid deamination---> N and P

 

[brandon429]

ps. I think my reef has had the most 100% water changes of any reef tank ever kept, it would be fun to seek out one that has done more :)

even the flow-through constant small percentage changes, I still think ive beat them. 16 years of reefing x average 2/100% changes a week, sometimes more to fatten up/feed for photos so at minimum its 1664 ish 100% water changes with extended drain and air time each interval, ranging 5-35 mins as a duration record of tidal outflow stress acclimation. I leave the whole reef drained on purpose to condition it, when it had coral banded shrimp he just hung out on the sand all compressed, or would scoot up in a rock depression to hang out for the interval.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I always thought the aerobic bacteria lived on hard surfaces and anaerobic bacteria lived deep inside pore networks of rocks....

why are some people giving advice like, "don't do too many water changes or else you will remove too much bacteria"?

Because they don't understand where the bacteria primarily reside. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

so aerobic bacteria lives in the water column

Some do, and some live on surfaces. I've never seen anyone quantify the relative numbers in reef tanks, and I'd be hard pressed to even see how one would do it.

 

[Brew12]

Some do, and some live on surfaces. I've never seen anyone quantify the relative numbers in reef tanks, and I'd be hard pressed to even see how one would do it.

Sounds like a good job for an intern! :D

1...2....3....4......

 

[jsker]

Good question again @john.m.cole3 and great answer everyone.