Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

[saltyfilmfolks]

well kinda sorta
i ran 2 tests with same products at 8ppm ammonia and came to same results in 7 days.
Then this test was 2 ppm ammonia with same products and same results in 7 days. Now i am resetting the tanks and conducting 2 more identical tests for consistency and best of 3 rule.
Experiment is to show which products brings ammonia down to 0 the fastest within few days.

Ok. Thanks.
That would actually be a yes.

 

[brandon429]

Before you close down 100% of these, move the substrates from the control into a jar, whatev, and keep it .023 but unfed for years.

See where I’m going

Try to fallow it to death, the test begins when it can pass normal 24 hour oxidation then starve it forever. Grandkids can write holograph reports on why it didn’t self starve over the decades, granddaddy reefs’s substrate jar. It never died, each generation keeps it approx topped off.

it may have a trough period where digestion isn't as powerful, in about three years or sooner that should level out and other than being really cold times of the year the ability to nitrify is posed to not vary that much, who knows though. 3 yrs is our longest collected fallow test so far.

Changes the water occasionally so we don’t rot (hint about perma feed source) but it’s never ever fed after it passes initial digest proof. dont fully seal. Vent in some way slightly. Sealed is a different beast. Theyll never change enough water to harm the surface areas made active in 2018 when we used thumbs as cro magnon web typers.

Do that to just one set of substrates...you can still start new by buying new substrate for one setup. Don’t bleach it, save it forever and riff scientifically on it forever as the slam dunk fallow test of recorded history. can one, or can one not starve hydrated filtration bacteria encased in a biofilm meeting all the biome requirements they’d be found in nature (oxic vs anoxic conditions, a vented not sealed tank but can be partial vent. Topoff weekly or longer is ok to experiment)

Put it in a pretty vase or stein preferably and put it on the mantle and top it off like it’s a fern, easy. Heck with a mere thumb flick a stein lid raises, refreshes, then seats back down that’s prob low topoff setup. Sits in the dark for a long long time, tested with the best gear of the day and a drop of AC occasionally. No circ no heating needed, weathers all seasons it won’t die even if topoff laxes but you should etch this into the base

1.019-1.035 max


update this in 2028

 

[Dr. Reef]

i will do just that @brandon429

 

[AllTheCorals]

I think the real question that may be impossible to answer is how well do these products perform long term. I’ve seen 100s of 5+ year old tanks with live rock on the forums, but not too many sps tanks with dry rock that have stood the test of time.

I’m getting ready to cycle 1500lbs of dry rock and am at a standstill of how to handle this. I’ve been debating using all the brands hoping to get a combination of everyone bacteria or gambling with live rock pets, but guaranteed stability.

 

[Dr. Reef]

I am not sure about the stability of bacteria colonizing in our tank. Maybe in the beginning and help ammonia down to zero but eventually some other bacteria will take over which would be more permanent. This is all a theory in my head really not any way to prove it unless did a deep microscopic study and research about it.
Due to the specific nature of this study I am only looking for a product that is helpful to set up a tank immediately within a day or two.
I am also about to conduct a study that will show using the same products more in a sense if you were to set up a tank put some fish in there and use this bacteria using seneye monitors to check on ammonia levels as if the tank was mimicking a live fish. These monitors are capable of monitoring ammonia levels in real time.
I have come to realize some of these bacteria in the bottle may not be good for setting up a tank with ammonia and trying to get them down to zero. Some of these products may work better if like the fish was in the system and you introduced bacteria at same time and may never see a cycle and that's what the other study will end up proving.

 

[AllTheCorals]

You did an amazing job with your testing! I really enjoyed reading this thread. People like you keep forums alive, thank you!

I know I’ll be using fritz in a pinch for a QT tank.

You seem to have a better grasp of bacteria than myself. What’s your opinion mixing a variety of products for a mega mix.

On my current system i dose biodigest when I see the occasional patch of cyano from overdosing amino. Within a day or two it’s gone. I’ve noticed some better coloration since I started using it too.

I am not sure about the stability of bacteria colonizing in our tank. Maybe in the beginning and help ammonia down to zero but eventually some other bacteria will take over which would be more permanent. This is all a fury in my head really not any way to prove it unless did a deep microscopic study and research about it.
Due to this specific nature of this study or test I am only looking for a product that is helpful to set up a tank immediately within a day or two.
I am also about to conduct a study that will show using the same products more in a sense if you were to set up a tank put some fish in there and use this bacteria using seneye monitors to check on ammonia levels as if the tank was mimicking a live fish. These monitors are capable off monitoring ammonia levels in real time.
I have come to realize some of these bacteria in the bottle may not B good for setting up a tank with ammonia and trying to get them down to zero. Some of these products may work better if like the fish was in the system and you introduced bacteria and may never see a cycle and that's what the other study will end up proving.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Mixing several bottles will give you variety of different strains of bacteria and some common strains in all bottles.
Most likely the common strains will likely establish the biofilter first just because of their numbers. All bacteria from different manufacturers and Bottles will be competing against each other to survive with a very limited amount of ammonium present in the beginning. Most of them will die off and only the ones that are in cheer numbers will be able to survive. In my opinion.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Response from Seachem regarding Stability stalling at 8ppm ammonia.

Hello Mike,

Thanks for your response! I'll answer the questions you asked in the order you asked them, for clarity.

1.) We have actually conducted studies in conditions very similar to this and found that even under high ammonia conditions, Stability is typically able to outperform competitors. Your study has inspired us to conduct a similar study in our lab and determine what could be the differences in bacterial additives!

2.) The dosage for a 5 gallon tank will be: 2.5 mL on the initial dose, and 1.25 mL for the subsequent 7 days.

I hope this helps! Let us know how it goes

Thanks,

Seachem Support 10286

 

[Dr. Reef]

If their response is true and they are going to conduct a similar study in their lab, it means there is going to be more positive things happening here.
I hope the they conduct and relay the results to me. Ill follow up anyways.
Hopefully a good result and maybe better or more refined product may be at works for Seachem.
Glad i could inspire them and glad i am learning a lot over that last few months.
Thank you Seachem

 

[pecan2phat]

Nothing has worked as fast IMO as Fritz Turbo Start albeit it cost 3x the amount of the other store shelved bacteria in a bottle.

 

[mikeyn]

Nothing has worked as fast IMO as Fritz Turbo Start albeit it cost 3x the amount of the other store shelved bacteria in a bottle.

You must consider the cost of shipping and logistics for a refrigerated product. You get what you pay for! Thanks!

 

[solitude127]

I'm a believer. I have a 40g QT tank with a 1 liter of Seachem Matrix (I was only able to seed the matrix in my DT for about a week before my new fish arrived). After getting all my fish settled in, a couple of days later I noticed my Ammonia badge started to detect ammonia and change color. I started dosing FritzZyme 9 at about 1/2 the recommended dosage and after a five days-ish with no intervention, I notice my ammonia badge go back to yellow (no ammonia detected). Definitely a fish saver in my QT

 

[MnFish1]

Also ran Red Sea ammonia to make sure on my findings. It produced the same result.

The problem with the Red Sea test is you can't see 'greater than 2'. So even if its 4 it will look like a darker 2.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Update guys, As of last weekend i did break downt he 4 tanks and reset them I just didnt wanna take same boring pics of the exact same setup lol
Anyways as of this morning i dosed the bacteria in 4 tanks according to the instructions on the bottles.
I will test them tomorrow and get the results posted here.

 

[MnFish1]

I think the real question that may be impossible to answer is how well do these products perform long term. I’ve seen 100s of 5+ year old tanks with live rock on the forums, but not too many sps tanks with dry rock that have stood the test of time.

I’m getting ready to cycle 1500lbs of dry rock and am at a standstill of how to handle this. I’ve been debating using all the brands hoping to get a combination of everyone bacteria or gambling with live rock pets, but guaranteed stability.

There is lots of evidence that adding bacteria to a system that already contains bacteria can lead to out competition of the added bacteria by the existing bacteria. If you have a dry rock tank and you add bacteria - the 'large' bacteria population will be the ones you added. Of course things can change over time - but - its not like it will happen in a day. It will happen slowly and not 'damage' the tank. IMHO

 

[MnFish1]

I think you need to really concentrate on using a test that does not have the highest 'high' at 2. It is not accurate if the ammonia is 'above' 2. I would only use a test that goes higher than 2 to measure the results. Again - you're doing great work - and taking a great amount of time. Its greatly appreciated

 

[Dr. Reef]

Well this time i only dosed to 1 ppm so i can truly monitor the test kits and their ability to chart the right color.

 

[reefer wanna be]

Well its definitely not a myth.. I had go move two tangs, two clowns, a leopard wrasse, a fairy wrasse and a decorated goby to a 20 gallon hospital tank.

I put filter floss, some food and biospira in the tank 24 hours before adding all the fish. Added all the fish at once and the tank saw no ammonia for the month that they were in there.

Theres a huge difference between the live bottles (biospira, dr tims) and the spore bottles (stability).

I had a prophate problem an a lady i work with which does all the water testing for the city we work for told me to use the biosphere an thanks for doin the test i am goin to try an follow as well im learning well trying to learn the science side of it also

 

[Dr. Reef]

30 hrs after dosing bacteria in all tanks i test with API ammonia test just now and got 1 ppm on 4 tanks with exception to Fritz that seems a little lighter in color than 1 ppm but not 0.5 ppm.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Ok guys at 60 hrs i have same results as expected and as seen before.
Fritz is at 0.25 ish on API while Red Sea shows 0.
Dr Tim is at 0.5 ppm while Prodibio and Seachem Seed are both 1 ppm.
I think by tomorrow morning Fritz will be absolutely 0 and Dr Tim maybe in another day or 2 will be down to 0 while Seed and Prodibio seems to have stalled again even at 1 ppm.